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Japan develops a method to recover up to 90% of lithium from used EV batteries

tech.supercarblondie.com

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Re: Japan develops a method to recover up to 90% of lithium from used EV batteries

#111

Post by worldsayshi »

qsera wrote: post #110
leonidasrup wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

U.S. lead acid baterries recycling has been outsourced. " As the United States tightened regulations on lead processing to protect Americans over the past three decades, finding domestic lead became a challenge. So the auto industry looked overseas to supplement its supply. In doing so, car and battery manufacturers pushed the health consequences of lead recycling onto countries where enforcement is lax, testing is r…

>countries where enforcement is lax As an Indian this is exactly one of the reasons why I am afraid of EV boom. All of that bad stuff, which we are mostly unfamiliar with (in terms of how to handle it properly, because battery tech is always changing) is going to dumped in places like India. And would silently sustain the bad effects for many decades or even more, until it (the bad stuff) somehow reaches some develop…

> places like India

I had the impression that India is quickly turning rich enough to say no to things like this.

Re: Japan develops a method to recover up to 90% of lithium from used EV batteries

#112

Post by qsera »

jwr wrote: post #99

Incidentally, companies developing technologies for reusing EV batteries in grid storage applications (where even <80% capacity EV batteries are just fine for many years), have trouble getting enough EV batteries, because they last much longer than we were made to believe.

"how much they last" does not play a part in the recycle load the industry will have to handle though...

Re: Japan develops a method to recover up to 90% of lithium from used EV batteries

#113

Post by nkmnz »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #46
nkmnz wrote: post #38

Scientists found a way to extract up to 90% of oxygen from air! They call it “breathing”.

> Scientists found a way to extract up to 90% of oxygen from air! They call it “breathing” No, they don't and no, they wouldn't. "Inhaled air [at sea level] contains 21% O2 while exhaled breath contains approximately 16% O2 and 5% CO2" [1]. 24% recovery. [1] https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8672270/

Genius.

Re: Japan develops a method to recover up to 90% of lithium from used EV batteries

#114

Post by Alpha3031 »

legitster wrote: post #86
cyphar wrote: post #21

It really should not be surprising that we can get very high recovery percentages from batteries -- we do not mine elemental lithium, so the processes we use for extraction are already designed to extract lithium from fairly low-purity sources. In contrast, lithium batteries are an incredibly high-purity source of lithium. The main question is when it will become cost-effective to create recycling pipelines. Lead aci…

This is probably somewhat true, but also I suspect there might be an order of magnitude difference from extracting trace lithium from inert rock vs collecting it as a salt from amongst a medley of very refined metals. Case in point - lead acid batteries are not a fair comparison. A lead acid battery is so robust you can separate the cathodes and anodes with your (gloved) hands. Getting the elements out of a lead batt…

> And the protein catches fire in contact with air.

FWIW neither lithium metal nor most Li-ion electrode chemistries autoignite in air at STP. The fire hazard is primarily due to heating up to the ignition temperature through short circuits though there are also exothermic reactions with e.g. water that can heat things up sufficiently.

Being the eager electron donor it is, once it is on fire it is very hard to put out, of course.

Re: Japan develops a method to recover up to 90% of lithium from used EV batteries

#115

Post by brandelune »

It looks like it’s not so much a breakthrough than an ongoing research that aims at producing this kind of results at scale:

https://green-innovation.nedo.go.jp/en/article/liquid-lithiu...

“While these targets have already been achieved at the laboratory level, we are now moving into the phase of mid-scale demonstration,”

Re: Japan develops a method to recover up to 90% of lithium from used EV batteries

#116

Post by lstodd »

legitster wrote: post #86
cyphar wrote: post #21

It really should not be surprising that we can get very high recovery percentages from batteries -- we do not mine elemental lithium, so the processes we use for extraction are already designed to extract lithium from fairly low-purity sources. In contrast, lithium batteries are an incredibly high-purity source of lithium. The main question is when it will become cost-effective to create recycling pipelines. Lead aci…

This is probably somewhat true, but also I suspect there might be an order of magnitude difference from extracting trace lithium from inert rock vs collecting it as a salt from amongst a medley of very refined metals. Case in point - lead acid batteries are not a fair comparison. A lead acid battery is so robust you can separate the cathodes and anodes with your (gloved) hands. Getting the elements out of a lead batt…

What is more fun is that it reacts with water (and all air has some moisture) which then leaves hydrogen to catch fire and explode.

One can replace air with pure nitrogen for example, but that complicates things.

Re: Japan develops a method to recover up to 90% of lithium from used EV batteries

#117

Post by freetime2 »

yanhangyhy wrote: post #19
chvid wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is curious - you would think they would love it? But they don't - is it simply the case of the Chinese beating them - stubbornness and pride? Or is there something more going on? Toyota was seemingly decades ahead at one point with their hybrid cars; but now they have resigned to a defensive position compared to Tesla, Chinese automakers, even the European ones.

> you would think they would love it? no. i just found it funny. > Or is there something more going on? I remember BYD actually had to design models specifically tailored to the Japanese market (k-car)—their preferences are honestly so bizarre. I think a lot of this comes down to their national character. Once external momentum fades—like the industrial transfers from the US—they seem to lose the drive for technologi…

> I remember BYD actually had to design models specifically tailored to the Japanese market (k-car)—their preferences are honestly so bizarre.

You say this in past tense, but BYD's kei car won't be released until later this month [1]. It remains to be seen how well it will sell. I think they are expected to sell maybe 5,000 units per year initially, but obviously they are looking to expand sales over time.

And what's wrong with kei cars? They are inexpensive to buy, fuel efficient, easy to park, inexpensive to maintain, are shockingly roomy inside, and have practical features like sliding doors. They aren't the fastest or most luxurious cars in the world - but as a tool for getting around they do their job very well.

The government also provides strong monetary incentives to drive kei cars in the form of lower taxes and inspection costs, which is another reason they are so popular. That's why the BYD Racco is kind of a big deal - they are the first non-Japanese manufacturer to design a car that complies with kei car standards. No other foreign manufacturers to date have felt it was worth the effort.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BYD_Racco

Re: Japan develops a method to recover up to 90% of lithium from used EV batteries

#118

Post by wombatpm »

mattclarkdotnet wrote: post #91
Sabinus wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sulfuric acid, hydrogen peroxide, sodium carbonate. Not catalysts but reagents. Most currently come from fossil fuel feedstock but that isn't essential.

Why would any of those compounds come from fossil fuels? Sulfur is mined, hydrogen peroxide is water with some oxygen taken off, and sodium carbonate is made from salt and limestone

Sulfur is produced when the H2S is removed from petroleum and natural gas. Elemental sulfur is burned to produce Sulfuric acid using the Contact Process.

Re: Japan develops a method to recover up to 90% of lithium from used EV batteries

#119

Post by ErroneousBosh »

legitster wrote: post #86
cyphar wrote: post #21

It really should not be surprising that we can get very high recovery percentages from batteries -- we do not mine elemental lithium, so the processes we use for extraction are already designed to extract lithium from fairly low-purity sources. In contrast, lithium batteries are an incredibly high-purity source of lithium. The main question is when it will become cost-effective to create recycling pipelines. Lead aci…

This is probably somewhat true, but also I suspect there might be an order of magnitude difference from extracting trace lithium from inert rock vs collecting it as a salt from amongst a medley of very refined metals. Case in point - lead acid batteries are not a fair comparison. A lead acid battery is so robust you can separate the cathodes and anodes with your (gloved) hands. Getting the elements out of a lead batt…

As late as the early 80s and probably later there was a guy in the city I live near that had a battery recycling company where they did just that - melted the pitch to extract the cells from the battery "bucket", cut the old cells off and melted them down, cast new grids and put new lead oxide in, and sealed it all up again.

My dad bought a recycled lorry battery off them in the late 70s, and I remember going to the place to pick it up. I can't imagine it was a very safe place to work, and I expect that was pretty much a maximum lifetime exposure to lead in one hit ;-)

Re: Japan develops a method to recover up to 90% of lithium from used EV batteries

#120

Post by anal_reactor »

worldsayshi wrote: post #111
qsera wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>countries where enforcement is lax As an Indian this is exactly one of the reasons why I am afraid of EV boom. All of that bad stuff, which we are mostly unfamiliar with (in terms of how to handle it properly, because battery tech is always changing) is going to dumped in places like India. And would silently sustain the bad effects for many decades or even more, until it (the bad stuff) somehow reaches some develop…

> places like India I had the impression that India is quickly turning rich enough to say no to things like this.

Never underestimate the poverty of India. India is huge and while in some places there are bubbles of wealth, it's still a third-world country.
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