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Woman in Brazil enslaved for 55 years by 3 generations of the same family

english.elpais.com

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Re: Woman in Brazil enslaved for 55 years by 3 generations of the same family

#111

Post by grantith »

amazingamazing wrote: post #94
encom wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Prisoners are not slaves, because they are not the property of the prison or any other entity. It's called involuntary servitude. I'm sure the people affected do not care about the distinction, but words matter. It's also trivially easy to not end up in involuntary servitude.

> It's also trivially easy to not end up in involuntary servitude. Stupid people always say nonsense like this as if no person in prison is innocent.

It's also black and white thinking that carries an ego-filled, nuance-lacking, disregard for the myriad of circumstances that underpin human behavior.

Re: Woman in Brazil enslaved for 55 years by 3 generations of the same family

#112

Post by 59percentmore »

argentinian wrote: post #103
lordnacho wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most countries we are discussing are richer now than a few decades ago, yet still have domestic servants. Those servants will be richer in a few decades but will still be in that situation.

Then I think that terrible labor laws are the main problem, not inequality

The terrible labor laws exist because of the inequality. The people with servants write the laws and, in their magnaminity, don't let the servants vote.

Re: Woman in Brazil enslaved for 55 years by 3 generations of the same family

#113

Post by tmtvl »

elmer2 wrote: post #90
phyzome wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correction: The US still has not abolished slavery. It is still legal in the case of prisoners: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirteenth_Amendment_to_the_Un...

I suppose using this logic, murder is legal, because of self defense. Theft is legal because of tax laws. Prisoners aren't 'slaves'. They are being punished for crimes they committed. Very dofferent than being born into it and bought/sold to the highest bidder.

If someone is abducted against their will and forced to do work without (fair) compensation and without being allowed to exercise their human rights, is that person not a slave because they were neither born into it nor bought or sold?

Re: Woman in Brazil enslaved for 55 years by 3 generations of the same family

#114

Post by tom86150 »

flyingshelf wrote: post #46
leoc wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just going on what it says in the article, it may be difficult to prove that anyone specifically forbade her to leave or made threats to prevent her from leaving.

I have some insight into this as my ex ended up in a similar situation in Malaysia. Rich family, no free days, 5-22 work hours. It took me a year to convince her that it was not ok. They took away her passport, phone, she wasn't allowed to go out without them. I was ready to help her but she did not want my help. In the end I'm sure she had to pay her "employer" for breach of contract since she left early. I think sh…

[dead]

Re: Woman in Brazil enslaved for 55 years by 3 generations of the same family

#115

Post by RetroTechie »

argentinian wrote: post #78
Laurel1234 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a symptom of inequality. It will start happening more and more even in the first world if inequality isn't tackled and wealth continues to concentrate.

Why do you see inequality as the problem, instead of poverty?

Inequality is a big factor. Story says the woman in this case felt she was compensated. Like feeling 'lucky' to enjoy (some) perks of living in a rich household. If that family had been as poor as her (or her mother), that stops being true. Then it becomes hard to keep a slave from walking away without resorting to violence.

Another big factor is the victim simply not knowing any better. Not being able to read might have helped with that (and I'd guess she probably wasn't allowed a phone, to keep her isolated from outside).

Point is there's a lot of space between "whips & chains" and "paying below minimum wage". Unfortunately some people are really good at exploiting that space.

Re: Woman in Brazil enslaved for 55 years by 3 generations of the same family

#116

Post by kQq9oHeAz6wLLS »

amazingamazing wrote: post #94
encom wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Prisoners are not slaves, because they are not the property of the prison or any other entity. It's called involuntary servitude. I'm sure the people affected do not care about the distinction, but words matter. It's also trivially easy to not end up in involuntary servitude.

> It's also trivially easy to not end up in involuntary servitude. Stupid people always say nonsense like this as if no person in prison is innocent.

Stupid people also assume there are not exceptions to every rule. But you can't build your systems (or your arguments) around edge cases, because that would be ignoring the vast majority of use cases.

Re: Woman in Brazil enslaved for 55 years by 3 generations of the same family

#118

Post by pelagicAustral »

elygre wrote: post #36
t1234s wrote: post #25

I was talking to a doctor who went to medical school in Brazil and said it was normal for upper-middle class people to have a live-in domestic servant. Many of the floorplans for condos or houses include a servants quarters. They were telling me theirs cost around $12 USD a day which is not a bad deal.

Not a bad deal for who?

This used to be quite common in Chile as well. I don't think it's that prevalent anymore, but it was very interesting to see the synergy some families built after decades of cohabiting with a "service person" (don't really know what word to use). I met a lot of people that widely regarded their service lady as a mother, they were pretty much raised with them around, so the bonds run deep. I have no doubt some times the compensation might not exactly be the best, but I have met quite a lot of people that are well happy with this arrangement.

Re: Woman in Brazil enslaved for 55 years by 3 generations of the same family

#119

Post by [deleted] »

elmer2 wrote: post #90
phyzome wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correction: The US still has not abolished slavery. It is still legal in the case of prisoners: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirteenth_Amendment_to_the_Un...

I suppose using this logic, murder is legal, because of self defense. Theft is legal because of tax laws. Prisoners aren't 'slaves'. They are being punished for crimes they committed. Very dofferent than being born into it and bought/sold to the highest bidder.

[deleted]

Re: Woman in Brazil enslaved for 55 years by 3 generations of the same family

#120

Post by crote »

elmer2 wrote: post #90
phyzome wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correction: The US still has not abolished slavery. It is still legal in the case of prisoners: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirteenth_Amendment_to_the_Un...

I suppose using this logic, murder is legal, because of self defense. Theft is legal because of tax laws. Prisoners aren't 'slaves'. They are being punished for crimes they committed. Very dofferent than being born into it and bought/sold to the highest bidder.

> They are being punished for crimes they committed

The punishment is being locked up in a cell. Being forced to work on top of that is the slavery.

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