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Founding a company in Germany: €9600, 152 days and I still can't send an invoice

paolino.me

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Re: Founding a company in Germany: €9600, 152 days and I still can't send an invoice

#111

Post by zero_k »

My friend bought an apartment. In February. Still in processing at the Amt (bureau). It's nightmare fuel. They are sending physical letters, and are hand-matching payments from banks. Apparently, they couldn't match a 53 EUR transfer last week, so a ~400k EUR payment is stalling.

The issue is, the people holding the stamps (and believe me, they ARE stamps, with ink and all) are in charge, and are VERY reluctant to give up that comfy job. Zero accountability, too, since once you are a government employee, it's incredibly hard to get fired. So they stall the process, forever, without any reprecussions.

I am all for having and caring about process and dealing with everyone equally. That's why I live in Germany and not in Eastern Europe where often some money under the table is the only oil in the machine. No such oil in the German machine, thankfully. But it's infuriatingly slow, because bureaucrats are in control and will never willing give up that control.

Re: Founding a company in Germany: €9600, 152 days and I still can't send an invoice

#112

Post by gwd »

bartread wrote: post #62
VadimPR wrote: post #8

Before Europe gets lumped in as one country, founding a company in Netherlands and Sweden, speaking from personal experience, is a breeze. Although Sweden is a bit strange in the fact that banks have as much equal say as the government authority does in you starting a company, and if they don't want you as a customer, they can simply deny the right for your company to start!

In the UK it used to be one form and a fee of £25 or something like that. I think, nowadays, that's probably just done online as well.

That won't get you a VAT ID, which is the key thing he says he needs to be able to bill people outside of Germany. It is significantly cheaper than 9k EUR and faster than 6 months to get in the UK, however.

Re: Founding a company in Germany: €9600, 152 days and I still can't send an invoice

#113

Post by wongarsu »

Aurornis wrote: post #69
stop50 wrote: post #2

For information: GmbH & Co. KG is one of the most complicated forms an company can be founded, the same goes if the inner company is an UG. Many things have to be done twice. The only good thing is that an investor or an owner are not liable with their private money.

> The only good thing is that an investor or an owner are not liable with their private money. That’s incredibly important. More than a footnote. I would consider any other form to be non-viable if it doesn’t have such protections. For comparison, starting an LLC in the United States is a trivial operation. I can’t even remember how long it took me to set mine up because it was a trivial event. Maybe a couple hours,…

Setting up a plain UG or GmbH gives the same advantage of not being liable with your private money, and is also a comparatively trivial process. Especially if you are the sole owner. Still slow compared to the US or UK, but not half a year slow

Starting out a company as a UG & Co KG is a tax optimization move, not a liability issue

Re: Founding a company in Germany: €9600, 152 days and I still can't send an invoice

#115

Post by valzam »

Aurornis wrote: post #80
Bombthecat wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He wanted to go all out and maximise "company form". Same as optimizing your website for hundred of thousands of visitors even if you have only like one hundred visitors...

If the parent comment is correct and this form is necessary for personal financial protection, I wouldn’t consider that “all out”. That’s the bare minimum consideration for a viable company structure.

OP wanted to set up a nested copmany structure. Instead of Person -> LLC it goes Person -> Limited Partnership --> LLC. The in between company is only for tax-efficiency and has nothing to do with limited liability.

Re: Founding a company in Germany: €9600, 152 days and I still can't send an invoice

#117

Post by scarmig »

sevenzero wrote: post #58
scarmig wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do people in Germany see limited liability as some kind of crazy thing only a scammer would want?

Depends. Given OP built yet another AI tool, yea, I want to hold them liable in case something goes wrong (not that I'd buy these tools in the first place).

Useful info, explains a lot. Thanks.

Re: Founding a company in Germany: €9600, 152 days and I still can't send an invoice

#118

Post by [deleted] »

earcar wrote: post #48
VadimPR wrote: post #8

Before Europe gets lumped in as one country, founding a company in Netherlands and Sweden, speaking from personal experience, is a breeze. Although Sweden is a bit strange in the fact that banks have as much equal say as the government authority does in you starting a company, and if they don't want you as a customer, they can simply deny the right for your company to start!

That is refreshing to hear. Unfortunately I can't get out because of exit tax, an unrealized capital gains tax for the privilege of leaving the country. That is way worse than what I mention in this post and will get its own post soon.

[deleted]

Re: Founding a company in Germany: €9600, 152 days and I still can't send an invoice

#119

Post by atsjie »

yoavm wrote: post #74
VadimPR wrote: post #8

Before Europe gets lumped in as one country, founding a company in Netherlands and Sweden, speaking from personal experience, is a breeze. Although Sweden is a bit strange in the fact that banks have as much equal say as the government authority does in you starting a company, and if they don't want you as a customer, they can simply deny the right for your company to start!

I've also done it both in Sweden and the Netherlands. Sweden is a breeze if you have BankID, sure (and as you said, if the bank likes you). The Netherlands wasn't exactly a breeze — I had to book a face-to-face appointment with KVK and all the slots in Amsterdam were taken, so I took the train about an hour away.

I don't dislike that they at least want to see you in real life once tbh. I love ease of registration like anyone else, but with tax avoidance and all that, idk. Feels right to me to have at least seen yourself once.

Re: Founding a company in Germany: €9600, 152 days and I still can't send an invoice

#120

Post by gwd »

Important note: The cost / delay he's talking about isn't registering a company; it's getting a VAT number. I've done both in the UK, and while getting a VAT number is significantly cheaper than 9k EUR and significantly faster than 6 months, it's not nearly as quick or cheap as simply registering the company, which is what many commenters (and even the author in TFA) are comparing it to.
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