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Mercedes‑Benz starts large‑scale production of electric axial flux motor

media.mercedes-benz.com

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Re: Mercedes‑Benz starts large‑scale production of electric axial flux motor

#111

Post by engineer_22 »

I am speculating but here might be reasons axial flux motors have advantage over radial flux motors:

1) torque: torque = applied force x length of the lever. Because the radial flux rotor must fit inside the stator, therefore radius adjacent to the stator, therefore radius radial rotor radius.

2) space efficiency: in a radial flux motor you have 1 rotor, the coils arranged so that one end of the coil's magnetic field is useful to work on the rotor, the other end is not used. In an axial flux motor, (1) pancake rotor at each end of the coils, total (2) rotors, the coils can act on a rotor at each end. There is no free lunch here, to do useful work you still must provide more energy to the coil, but you can get the most from the space.

There must be someone here with a better handle on the electromagnetism, please correct me where I err.

Re: Mercedes‑Benz starts large‑scale production of electric axial flux motor

#112

Post by small_model »

rsynnott wrote: post #96
small_model wrote: post #89

10 years behind Tesla, they are doomed

... Eh? No. No current large-scale production car uses axial flux motors. You're talking concept cars, plus a few oddities like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McLaren_Artura

I mean in EV's, a fancy expensive concept motor isn't going to help, autonomy should have been their direction 10 years ago, they are on the downward slope of their existence im afraid. Its the equivalent of Blockbuster adding a tape rewinding service to try and boost sales vs Netflix streaming.

Re: Mercedes‑Benz starts large‑scale production of electric axial flux motor

#113

Post by AtlasBarfed »

originalvichy wrote: post #97
miohtama wrote: post #87

Mercedes acquired Yasa (UK) couple of years ago and now getting up to the speed in the production. Here is a nice video that explains axial flux motors with a factory visit https://youtu.be/B2Hl4c1iZK0?si=VfDYARyuaPVj1nKm They are so, so, small.

I wonder how developing electric motors compares to combustion engines. My hunch says that it’s the main reason the Chinese high-tech electronics industry was able to develop and iterate leading electric vehicles so fast. (Edit: My more clarified point is regarding the machinery required + place to accommodate them to work on electric motors vs. ICE metal parts and all the intermediary parts transfering power in the…

I'm not saying there isn't room for innovation but... Electric motors have been around for a century now already in many applications.

It's not like the Dawn of the steam engine

Re: Mercedes‑Benz starts large‑scale production of electric axial flux motor

#115

Post by rswail »

WJW wrote: post #41
nelox wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want a V12 or V16, thank you very much.

Stick two of them together on the same axle then.

Why do you need an axle?

Put the engine and its transmission to the wheel mounted next to each wheel.

No need for differentials etc, if they can work out a steering mechanism for each, then you've got 4WD with 4W steering.

In the video there's talk of how you can use them as regenerative braking as well, so have that as part of the wheel structure.

No axles, no differentials, independent suspension, electronically controlled power to each wheel, regenerative braking.

Gonna be a fun decade or more of innovation coming.

Re: Mercedes‑Benz starts large‑scale production of electric axial flux motor

#116

Post by csomar »

mohsen1 wrote: post #99
miohtama wrote: post #87

Mercedes acquired Yasa (UK) couple of years ago and now getting up to the speed in the production. Here is a nice video that explains axial flux motors with a factory visit https://youtu.be/B2Hl4c1iZK0?si=VfDYARyuaPVj1nKm They are so, so, small.

I was curious how this thing works and asked Claude to visualize it -- mostly to see how good Fable is and I have to say, what it made was good enough for me to get a gist of it. Posted it here https://azimi.me/axial-flux-motor-explainer/

The issue with this is, without an expert, how do I know I am getting an accurate representation?

Re: Mercedes‑Benz starts large‑scale production of electric axial flux motor

#117

Post by Vespasian »

boringg wrote: post #83
bluebarbet wrote: post #82

For a century Germany's comparative advantage has been [mechanical] engineering. As a European I want (need?) Germany to succeed. Ergo: more of this, please.

Their advantage was mechanical engineering. They have historically not done well with electrical systems. So this is a change - hopefully for the better.

That's not quite right.

For example Siemens and Bosch are large enterprises specialised in industrial scale electrical machines and parts (among other fields).

Infineon was spun off from Siemens 25 years ago an plays an important role in chip manufacturing for automative systems.

Re: Mercedes‑Benz starts large‑scale production of electric axial flux motor

#119

Post by deaux »

csomar wrote: post #116
mohsen1 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was curious how this thing works and asked Claude to visualize it -- mostly to see how good Fable is and I have to say, what it made was good enough for me to get a gist of it. Posted it here https://azimi.me/axial-flux-motor-explainer/

The issue with this is, without an expert, how do I know I am getting an accurate representation?

You don't. You didn't know before either. The difference is trust. How do you trust it as much as you do the hypothetical humans making such representations? That's up to you.

Re: Mercedes‑Benz starts large‑scale production of electric axial flux motor

#120

Post by amluto »

mohsen1 wrote: post #99
miohtama wrote: post #87

Mercedes acquired Yasa (UK) couple of years ago and now getting up to the speed in the production. Here is a nice video that explains axial flux motors with a factory visit https://youtu.be/B2Hl4c1iZK0?si=VfDYARyuaPVj1nKm They are so, so, small.

I was curious how this thing works and asked Claude to visualize it -- mostly to see how good Fable is and I have to say, what it made was good enough for me to get a gist of it. Posted it here https://azimi.me/axial-flux-motor-explainer/

I am not an expert, but I do know some physics and I know how to read, and I’m pretty sure this is full of BS. Also it’s a really crappy visualization.
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