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Canada to order military plane fleet from Sweden in shift from US suppliers

theguardian.com

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Re: Canada to order military plane fleet from Sweden in shift from US suppliers

#111

Post by AlexandrB »

rubayeet wrote: post #67
petcat wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Canada would only have to patrol its southern Alberta border /s No coincidence that Albertans are sparking up the seceding issue again. When 10% of the population produces nearly 20% of the country's GDP it's a breeding ground for contempt. And it also seems like Albertans are the butt of a lot of jokes from the other Canadians anyway. I'm sure this US government would love to see an "independent" Alberta.

This is false. Alberta is NOT the economic engine of Canada, that’s a huge misconception of a group of Canadians (mostly Albertans) [0] [0] https://youtu.be/5lSJpqA8RU4?si=fxwKpUFFKO7gK63E

Did you watch this video? About half way through he confirms that Alberta has the highest GDP/capita in Canada and is the largest (per capita) tax contributor. Ontario is obviously larger in absolute terms, but it has at least 4x the population.

Re: Canada to order military plane fleet from Sweden in shift from US suppliers

#112

Post by jleyank »

munk-a wrote: post #43
khriss wrote: post #30

I can understand why this change happened. Even if American equipment is superior, there is a lot of value to not depending on a supposed 'ally' which * Arbitrarily slapped high tariffs on all goods from Canada while exempting Russia and Belarus. * Threatened to take over the country by force. * Officially suspended the Permanent Joint Board on Defense between US and Canada because of criticism of US foreign policy b…

> Even if American equipment is superior I'd mention that whether a piece of tech can beat another one on one is a consideration but a larger concern is how maintainable your fleet is. Canada is specifically moving to grow ties with the EU (and has joined their defense industry network) which really incentivizes having a fleet that is a similar makeup to other European countries. The tariffs and international unpredi…

They also make the underlying bird, so parts aside from the electronics are native.

Re: Canada to order military plane fleet from Sweden in shift from US suppliers

#113

Post by gopher_space »

joering2 wrote: post #50
kashunstva wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Canada has historically relied on a relatively stable trading relationship with the U.S. That relationship is a shambles. It remains to be seen how Canada retools itself; I imagine that we will see a blend of on-shoring and new trading sources. So it’s less of an issue of “can’t” and more “hasn’t (yet)”.

Frankly to me the fact Canada is "retooling itself" knowing well that this nightmare should be over in less than 3 years, and most likely next President will be a Democrat, but yet they keep retooling, means their strong (reliable?) assumption is that Trump Administration won't leave the office at all, similar to how Putin stayed in power in what arguingly is a Democratic Country.

There's a "people won't get tired of our good cop/bad cop bullshit because there's money to be made" attitude in the US that doesn't even reflect our own point of view.

They're retooling because it doesn't matter who the next president is.

Re: Canada to order military plane fleet from Sweden in shift from US suppliers

#114

Post by mpol »

hnburnsy wrote: post #24

Boeing and Airbus have tremendous backlogs... >As of March 31st, 2026, Airbus reported a commercial aircraft backlog of 9,031 aircraft. Based on the company’s 2026 delivery target of 870 aircraft, this represents approximately 10.4 years of production coverage. >Boeing’s commercial backlog stood at approximately 6,719 aircraft at the end of March. Using Forecast International’s production estimates, Boeing’s backlog…

Those are facts.

They do not mean that the people who ordered them today are wanting them today. If you need them in 10 years time, you need to order them today. It can easily change, if a flight company doesnt want to do business with Boeing or Airbus, they can cancel their pre-orders. Then the pre-order list might shrink really fast.

Re: Canada to order military plane fleet from Sweden in shift from US suppliers

#115

Post by jleyank »

xethos wrote: post #40
866-RON-0-FEZ wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or, consider that the smaller Saab better fits the mission profile for Canada, and may be cheaper to operate, all the while The Guardian is furiously beating off trying to turn this into a bigger story than it really is.

Cheaper to operate and mission-fit (debatable) is one thing, but the real question is: "Would this have happened without the US president's antics?"

Unfortunately, there is nothing in the US system (as far as I can see) that prevents Trump-like behaviour being the new standard. There were three supposedly independent, contentious branches of Government. One is inert (legislature), one enabled Trump (SCOTUS) and the third, of course, is Trump. I am unaware of any mechanism that can change things.

Re: Canada to order military plane fleet from Sweden in shift from US suppliers

#116

Post by jleyank »

throwaway85825 wrote: post #103
e40 wrote: post #97

Over the last few months we've seen announcements of shifts from US-based supply chains to non-US-supply chains. As an American, I think this is prudent, based on what has happened in the last year and change. The US is no longer a reliable partner and this is what you do when that happens. 100 years from now, the last 15 months will be written about in no uncertain terms: this administration has loaded many footguns…

Look around you. What products do you own with a US supply chain and what has a Chinese supply chain.

Guess the people writing on HN here don't have Mac's, iPhones or iPads or use whatever the watches are called.

Re: Canada to order military plane fleet from Sweden in shift from US suppliers

#117

Post by jamie_ca »

petcat wrote: post #59
mikeyouse wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Canada only has to patrol its northern border. At what point on this current trajectory in the US would that change... mostly facetiously, but not entirely..

Canada would only have to patrol its southern Alberta border /s No coincidence that Albertans are sparking up the seceding issue again. When 10% of the population produces nearly 20% of the country's GDP it's a breeding ground for contempt. And it also seems like Albertans are the butt of a lot of jokes from the other Canadians anyway. I'm sure this US government would love to see an "independent" Alberta.

You're rounding both ways to exaggerate your point. 2024 numbers, Stats Canada (via Wikipedia) has Alberta at 11.9% population, and 15.25% GDP.

They (and Sask too) do swing on the higher end in GDP per capita, but it's not a 2:1 by any stretch.

Re: Canada to order military plane fleet from Sweden in shift from US suppliers

#118

Post by jleyank »

bigyabai wrote: post #4

Saab makes excellent AWACS systems, this strikes me as a good choice. It'll be interesting to see if Canada also invests in the Gripen long-term, as a replacement for the aging CF-18 fleet.

I think the F-16 would have been a good bird for Canada's needs. The F-18 had the advantage of two engines, which strikes me as a good thing in the Arctic. If these two are off the table, things like the Saab are reasonable. There's only 2-3 countries one needs stealth fighters for, and 30-40-ish won't matter in such cases.

Re: Canada to order military plane fleet from Sweden in shift from US suppliers

#119

Post by watwut »

jsLavaGoat wrote: post #58
danesparza wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"We call this confirmation bias". I'm genuinely curious to know what you think the author's pre-existing beliefs are. You seem to have a few of your own: "Canada only has to patrol its northern border"

[flagged]

America threatened both Canada and Greenland. Both NATO countries. It is engaged in murders of boatsmen, it started an illegal war that literally harmed countries around the world, it kidnapped a president just so it can blackmail is former right hand and is intentionally causing humanitarian catastrophe in Cuba to blackmail its government.

Re: Canada to order military plane fleet from Sweden in shift from US suppliers

#120

Post by Zigurd »

mpol wrote: post #114
hnburnsy wrote: post #24

Boeing and Airbus have tremendous backlogs... >As of March 31st, 2026, Airbus reported a commercial aircraft backlog of 9,031 aircraft. Based on the company’s 2026 delivery target of 870 aircraft, this represents approximately 10.4 years of production coverage. >Boeing’s commercial backlog stood at approximately 6,719 aircraft at the end of March. Using Forecast International’s production estimates, Boeing’s backlog…

Those are facts. They do not mean that the people who ordered them today are wanting them today. If you need them in 10 years time, you need to order them today. It can easily change, if a flight company doesnt want to do business with Boeing or Airbus, they can cancel their pre-orders. Then the pre-order list might shrink really fast.

Indeed. Backlogs can evaporate. Can you imagine anyone taking delivery of a newly built 737 in 10 years? 7 years? Theoretically, that's part of the backlog.
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