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U.S. DOJ demands Apple and Google unmask over 100k users of car-tinkering app

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Re: U.S. DOJ demands Apple and Google unmask over 100k users of car-tinkering app

#111

Post by legitster »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #79
legitster wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sounds to me they're saying they don't have this already, but why is this investigation happening in the first place then? They probably have tons of data and testimony from witnesses who use the product illegally. You can find hundreds of threads online of people telling you how to defeat emissions controls using their products. The case prosecutors want to make is that EZ Lynk knowingly enables this behavior. If…

> If they can show that the majority of users are committing crimes with the app, that's a much stronger case than just rounding up a handful of witnesses. I still don't understand why this should even be relevant in cases like this. The thing is basically a generic OBD dongle, right? The same thing every DIY and shade tree mechanic uses to read codes and run service procedures. Suppose 20,000 people buy it and use i…

> I still don't understand why this should even be relevant in cases like this. The thing is basically a generic OBD dongle, right? The same thing every DIY and shade tree mechanic uses to read codes and run service procedures.

The difference is this company provides a bunch of cloud services to roll out specific tunes at scale.

From the original filing:

> "EZ Lynk worked with/previewed the EZ Lynk System for at least two delete tune creators during development and before launching the EZ Lynk System. Those creators later disseminated delete tunes using the EZ Lynk System. There were numerous social media websites, including the “EZ Lynk Forum,” where third parties discussed using the EZ Lynk System to defeat emission controls. The Forum was run by EZ Lynk and one of the delete tune creators EZ Lynk worked with during development, and it provided contact information for EZ Lynk technical support. EZ Lynk representatives interacted with posts and videos about deleting emission controls and installing delete tunes, including tunes from one of the delete tune creators EZ Lynk worked with during development."

So it does seem like the DOJ is going after them for collaborating on developing and enabling the tunes. I suspect the subpoena is about establishing damages.

Re: U.S. DOJ demands Apple and Google unmask over 100k users of car-tinkering app

#113

Post by esseph »

bluefirebrand wrote: post #101
computomatic wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My guess: they want to make the case that illegitimate use cases are indeed the primary use case. Their approach is to randomly sample all users and show that the vast majority use it to defeat emissions, undermining the app maker’s defence. I don’t think that justifies the overreach. As you said, if they don’t have a case already, they shouldn’t be allowed to violate user privacy on speculation that some statistical…

I suspect there is a bit of parallel construction going on They might already know for a fact that illegitimate use cases are the primary use case, they just cannot use any of their evidence in court So they are seeking a way to legally obtain the information they already have, basically It's shady but my understanding is it happens kind of a lot in modern policing. They can get illegal information much easier than l…

I wonder if they will use this case (depending on how it turns out), for a case against 3d printers.

"You knowingly enabled $XYZ", etc.

Or AI companies, for that matter...

Re: U.S. DOJ demands Apple and Google unmask over 100k users of car-tinkering app

#114

Post by newsclues »

AdmiralAsshat wrote: post #104

It will start with subpoenaing this information against people who modified their car to do "bad" things. But once they have the precedent, I would predict that it will very quickly be used at the behest of car manufacturers to go after people who modify their cars to, say, disable GPS tracking.

Then go after the people that modify their console, fridge or your phone.

Slippery slope is fully lubed

Re: U.S. DOJ demands Apple and Google unmask over 100k users of car-tinkering app

#115

Post by oceanplexian »

These vehicle emissions laws are almost always fake compliance theater and were dreamed up by idiots. They are a huge drag on the economy and achieve absolutely nothing.

For example, the reason we don’t have super efficient turbodiesel subcompacts that are perfectly legal in the EU is thanks to the so called “Clean” air act. Since the law is based on vehicle weight I can go buy a 8,000 pound truck and commute to work alone in it and pollute all I want. But if I want a super clean 80MPG diesel subcompact that’s 1/4 the gross weight supposedly bad for the environment.

But it gets worse in all sorts of ways, the law grandfathers coal plants from all these emissions standards. One coal plant can emit more pollution than millions of trucks. Guess which polluter the government is aggressively pursuing and violating the rights of? You guessed it, car enthusiasts who downloaded an app. Give me a break.

Re: U.S. DOJ demands Apple and Google unmask over 100k users of car-tinkering app

#116

Post by sneak »

shimman wrote: post #28
Yaa101 wrote: post #12

Welcome to our brave new digital world, governments and DOJs do this because now they can, I am afraid this is only the beginning.

Democratic governments can be held accountable, corporations cannot.

> Democratic governments can be held accountable

Please explain to me how ICE (part of the nominally democratic USG) can be held accountable for summarily executing citizens.

Re: U.S. DOJ demands Apple and Google unmask over 100k users of car-tinkering app

#117

Post by traderj0e »

oceanplexian wrote: post #115

These vehicle emissions laws are almost always fake compliance theater and were dreamed up by idiots. They are a huge drag on the economy and achieve absolutely nothing. For example, the reason we don’t have super efficient turbodiesel subcompacts that are perfectly legal in the EU is thanks to the so called “Clean” air act. Since the law is based on vehicle weight I can go buy a 8,000 pound truck and commute to work…

I don't buy that those are actually clean. EU has always had majority high-MPG non-diesel cars that you also don't see here as often, simply because gas is cheap in the US. People complain that it's expensive but then 2/3 times go buy a truck or SUV anyway.

Re: U.S. DOJ demands Apple and Google unmask over 100k users of car-tinkering app

#118

Post by bornfreddy »

tylerchilds wrote: post #89
gruez wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Any device with Google services installed has all apps scanned at least once per day. You can turn it off, so it's not "any". At best it's "most".

Also I daily drive graphene and that has no Google play services

Unless you want push notifications.

Re: U.S. DOJ demands Apple and Google unmask over 100k users of car-tinkering app

#119

Post by lovich »

cogman10 wrote: post #21
embedding-shape wrote: post #3

> The government says it needs this information to identify and interview witnesses who can testify about how the tools were actually used. Why start this whole thing, if you don't already have this information and have people willing to help you as witnesses? Sounds to me they're saying they don't have this already, but why is this investigation happening in the first place then? Rather than finding every user of th…

Yeah, I'd HAPPILY report every single truck rolling coal around me if there was a place to report that information. Hell, I've seen a truck roll coal around cop cars and, obviously, nothing happened. This is just gross privacy intrusion masquerading as "protecting the environment". We don't need 100% compliance to the law and simple prosecution/ticketing of obvious violations would go a long way towards solving the p…

With this admin any comment on “protecting the environment” is an obvious lie when they state that climate change doesn’t exist and are opening up every national land then can to resource extraction.

Like it’s normally a dubious claim when trying to violate privacy but for them it’s fucking laughable if only it wasn’t so ominous.

Re: U.S. DOJ demands Apple and Google unmask over 100k users of car-tinkering app

#120

Post by dec0dedab0de »

This is outrageous, especially since there are many other ways that you could violate emissions laws.

If they really cared they could equip federal agents, and state/local police with testing equipment. It is easy to see/hear vehicles that are likely to be violating these rules. Heck, make a hotline, I would rat them out all day. Just incorporate it with rate-limiting how often each vehicle could get pulled over for it, so it doesn't get abused.

This really comes down to corporations and the government colluding to make us not actually own anything. The fact that they would refer to a tool for making modifications to your car a "defeat device" is so telling. Coupled with phones not allowing side loading is really fucked up.

Everything is awful, and it's been getting worse for as long as I can remember. I think I'm going to lose it and just cut ties with the internet, and computers in general very soon. The power, and freedom I used to feel has been replaced with oppression disguised as convenience. One Token Ring to rule them all.

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