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Iran students stage first large anti-government protests since deadly crackdown

bbc.com

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Re: Iran students stage first large anti-government protests since deadly crackdown

#111

Post by SpaceL10n »

mothballed wrote: post #75
akiselev wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The book Brett uses as his main source, Waging A Good War , is an incredible book that I strongly recommend. It treats the Civil Rights movement as a military campaign and analyzes it from the perspective of a military historian. Not in the sense that it was viewed as a war by the protestors, but in the sense that the logistics, training, and operations of the Civil Rights movement were a well oiled machine that look…

[flagged]

Freedom means freedom to exclude and alienate at the government level? Is that your argument? I can see your hypothesis, but I don't see your evidence.

Re: Iran students stage first large anti-government protests since deadly crackdown

#112

Post by Wytwwww »

santoshalper wrote: post #86
Wytwwww wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> with western countries also openly declaring their intent to destabilize Iran As opposed to standing idly by when the regime 'stabilizes' the country by murdering thousands of people? It's well past the stage where non violent protest or resistance stopped being a viable option..

Not really. We absolutely have the option to let things play out in Iran and refuse to intervene. There are many regimes in Africa that are as bad or worse than Iran. We seem to have little interest in "regime change" there. You should think about why not.

Well it's not black and white. Sometimes doing the right thing even if you have ulterior motives is better than doing nothing.

Africa is tricky due to historical reasons, though. Any western power that would intervene there without the explicit invitation of the local government would be accused of neo-colonialism etc.

Re: Iran students stage first large anti-government protests since deadly crackdown

#113

Post by don_esteban »

Wytwwww wrote: post #82
don_esteban wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just think about would have happened if protesters in USA shot and killed 150 policemen. Protesters which foreign states (China or Russia) openly boasted they are supporting, and provided them with weapons and communication technology.

So there are no circumstances where armed rebellion is justifiable and the only legitimate type of resistance to state violence is literally trying to drown the state forces in bodies of non-violent protestors? At a certain point there ceases to be a middle path between violent resistance and complete surrender. > Protesters which foreign states (China or Russia) This type of relativism is dishonest. Of course US is…

Uh, sorry, no. At the moment you start arguing by 'The Iranian regime is objectively evil, period', you have totally lost the plot.

The statement 'The USA regime is objectively evil, period' is much more justifiable. Measured, e.g. by the number of people it has killed (both directly, and indirectly by sanctions and support for brutal dictators - e.g. Pinochet, but also Saddam while he was waging war with Iran).

Meddling in internal affairs of other countries has a terrible track record, the world would be so much better off without it.

Armed resistance most often leads to a damn bloody affair in which everybody is worse off, unless the state is already so rotten that it has no will to fight for itself. Supporting such resistance just means more life losses, both on the resistance and on the state side (typically, much more on the resistance side). Hence, the true aim is not to help the resistance, but to weaken the state. No consideration for the life of the local people, the show (the grand game) must go on!

Re: Iran students stage first large anti-government protests since deadly crackdown

#114

Post by CommanderData »

tachalorah wrote: post #52

CIA and Mossad with their usual hobby.

Israel wants Iran destroyed so badly, interesting it suddenly loves Iranians now after it bombed them indiscriminately killing many civilians just last year.

HN'ers hopefully arent stupid to fall for obvious propaganda?

Re: Iran students stage first large anti-government protests since deadly crackdown

#115

Post by dataflow »

Rover222 wrote: post #68
georgeburdell wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My impression is that protests in the West are largely MAGA aligned and focused more on regime change. Totally different target audience. Observe “MIGA” slogans and Trump’s face in this video from Los Angeles https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=20T6XrrLdiA&pp=ygUYbG9zIGFuZ2V... Edit: Also, the Left seems to more often pick sides when its one ethnic group oppressing another, as identity politics is prominent in their messag…

I think if Biden was taking a lot of the same actions the Trump admin is taking, people would support it a lot more (Venezuela, Cuba, Iran, maybe even Gaza). Of course then the right would be protesting foreign interventions.

> I think if Biden was taking a lot of the same actions the Trump admin is taking, people would support it a lot more (Venezuela,

If Biden repeatedly shot boats that he alleged carried drugs without evidence and then shot survivors again for good measure until he eventually went and captured Venezuela's de facto head of state, people would support him a lot more? Really?

Re: Iran students stage first large anti-government protests since deadly crackdown

#116

Post by kelipso »

jjtwixman wrote: post #105
kelipso wrote: post #49

[flagged]

Silly comment, in this case reporting facts about protests is indistinguishable from "manufacturing consent".

This article is made for a certain crowd, with a certain type of gullibility. Since the nypost has a different audience, we get to see a bit of comedy like this “Iranian forces hack out wombs of female protesters to hide horrific sexual abuse: report” (1). Babies in ovens (2) will be next right?

1. https://nypost.com/2026/02/20/world-news/imprisoned-iranian-...

2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nayirah_testimony

Re: Iran students stage first large anti-government protests since deadly crackdown

#117

Post by inglor_cz »

don_esteban wrote: post #79
logicchains wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Iraq now is a lot richer and freer than it was under Saddam Hussein.

Is it richer than before western sanctions? It is always the same story: Look how poorly the regime manages the country! Never said: The country is under such sanctions/blockade that any western country would have already folded long ago.

"any western country would have already folded long ago"

How do you know that? Is it just your general assumption "Westerners weak, must fold, third-worlders stronk, they endure"?

Under what conditions would you say that sanctions are OK? Or are they never? In that case, there still might be white minority rule in Rhodesia or South Africa.

Re: Iran students stage first large anti-government protests since deadly crackdown

#118

Post by apical_dendrite »

don_esteban wrote: post #53
apical_dendrite wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe you're referring to Syria, not Iran. And I don't think you're describing the situation accurately at all. The Syrian civil war is incredibly complex, and there are many parties involved. The groups that led the offensive were supported by Turkey at various points, but not by the United States. US forces in Syria didn't really have much to do with that offensive.

Read a bit more about the fall of shah in Iran. At that time, there were two strong anti-shah factions in Iran. Islamists and communists. Guess which one was helped by USA? :-)

I've actually read quite a lot about the fall of the shah and what you are saying is bullshit. See, for instance, Scott Anderson's recent book King of Kings which goes into a great deal of detail about the US government's understanding and decision-making during the Iranian Revolution.

Re: Iran students stage first large anti-government protests since deadly crackdown

#119

Post by weakfish »

Galaxeblaffer wrote: post #78
weakfish wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Idk, I’ve never seen any left wing folks actively support the Iranian regime. I think the difference is what you noted, the US support for Israel vs. intervention in Iran. I, and many I know, would love to see the Iranian regime fall, just not via US regime change which tends to make things worse.

One big thing your missing is that there simply is no way imaginable that a regime change can happen without the US, it's simply impossible at this stage. I can certainly understand why many if not most Iranians want the US to intervene, it's simply the only way regime change is ever going to happen.w

I don’t necessarily contest that, but I also wouldn’t trust the current administration to be the ones to succeed in that undertaking in a way that promotes lasting peace in the country/region. And no, I wouldn’t trust Biden/Obama/Bush either.

Re: Iran students stage first large anti-government protests since deadly crackdown

#120

Post by don_esteban »

stickfigure wrote: post #94
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #7

“To simplify greatly, the strategy of non-violence aims first to cause disruption (non-violently) in order both to draw attention but also in order to bait state overreaction. The state’s overreaction then becomes the ‘spectacular attack’ which broadcasts the movement’s message, while the group’s willingness to endure that overreaction without violence not only avoids alienating supporters, it heightens the contrast…

This seems to only have a good track record in places with a democratic tradition. Some dictators have figured out you can just imprison and kill the opposition, and keep doing this until there is no more opposition. The Khomeini government is not going to just say "oh, you're right" and change. Neither will the Kim or Putin governments. Sometimes - sadly - violence is the least worst answer.

Re: Sometimes - sadly - violence is the least worst answer.

The least worst for whom?! For normal Iranian people who just want to leave their life?

I hate my current government. Do I think an armed uprising or a USA bombing campaign would would improve things? Heck NO!

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