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Irish man with valid US work permit held in ICE detention for five months

theguardian.com

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Re: Irish man with valid US work permit held in ICE detention for five months

#111

Post by temp8830 »

jzebedee wrote: post #64
balozi wrote: post #48

As presented, that dude's story as makes little sense to anyone familiar with the immigration process. There is more to this story, I wish the reporter would just tell it.

If it surprises you, then you haven't paid attention to the blatantly unconstitutional actions of DHS in this administration. The purpose is terror and filling deportation quotas, not enforcing immigration law.

So that's the narrative. But if you actually dig into any of these stories you'll quickly find that there is more to them and they are all presented in a very one-sided fashion.

The guy from the article would have been deported by Biden's ICE too.

Re: Irish man with valid US work permit held in ICE detention for five months

#112

Post by tpm »

kcplate wrote: post #103
insane_dreamer wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's shocking that the court could determine this when the whole process of getting permanent residency involves an adjustment of status that allows you to remain in the country even though your visa has expired so long as your application is being processed (which can take a very long time). You just can't leave the country. So to arrest someone while they are following the steps they're supposed to be following, is…

> So to arrest someone while they are following the steps they're supposed to be following I think the issue complicating this man’s situation is that it appears when you dig into the details that for nearly 16 years he was skirting the system and only tried getting his legal situation resolved just a few months prior to his detainment. He is choosing to fight it which is resulting in the long detention. Personally I…

> for nearly 16 years he was skirting the system

This is the one thing that pops up often in these cases and my European head can't understand this. Obviously people do this because they can but why does the system allow this? People should be forced to sort out their legal situation one way or another in timely manner, because if something happens after decades (like what's going on now) it will cause lots of damage for many people including families with children. This many people living in legal limbo also encourages lawless behavior of the agencies.

It would be very hard to skirt the system like that in many European countries. Not impossible, some people do it anyway, but that means more or less living completely underground without healthcare, driving license, any sort of banking etc.

Re: Irish man with valid US work permit held in ICE detention for five months

#113

Post by belorn »

tpm wrote: post #112
kcplate wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So to arrest someone while they are following the steps they're supposed to be following I think the issue complicating this man’s situation is that it appears when you dig into the details that for nearly 16 years he was skirting the system and only tried getting his legal situation resolved just a few months prior to his detainment. He is choosing to fight it which is resulting in the long detention. Personally I…

> for nearly 16 years he was skirting the system This is the one thing that pops up often in these cases and my European head can't understand this. Obviously people do this because they can but why does the system allow this? People should be forced to sort out their legal situation one way or another in timely manner, because if something happens after decades (like what's going on now) it will cause lots of damage…

There was a similar problem in Sweden. In the old system a person could first seek asylum, get denied, then seek a work visa, get denied, then seek a student visa, get denied and then repeat the process since now enough years has passed. People could also simply go underground for a period of time and then restart the process.

Two law changes was added last year to prevent this. First, any decision remains in force indefinite as long the person remains in the country. The second is that all applications will be running simultaneous and the final decision is given at the same time, with no option to change application afterward if the result returned negative.

The system has some drawbacks, especially if the applicant apply for the wrong thing and don't change it until the decision has been reached, but it removes stalling and delaying tactics.

Re: Irish man with valid US work permit held in ICE detention for five months

#114

Post by tim333 »

tamimio wrote: post #104

> Mr Culleton said he would like Taoiseach Micheál Martin to mention his case to President Donald Trump when he visits the Oval Office next month. Wow, so basically a banana republic, any matter should be resolved by one person, literally the president himself!! > "To this day we still don't know why he was picked up by ICE. I think they are thinking of “criminal records”, and they see there’s nothing so it should be…

Probably some Palantir software flagging him for having been illegal in the past.

Re: Irish man with valid US work permit held in ICE detention for five months

#115

Post by tpm »

belorn wrote: post #113
tpm wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> for nearly 16 years he was skirting the system This is the one thing that pops up often in these cases and my European head can't understand this. Obviously people do this because they can but why does the system allow this? People should be forced to sort out their legal situation one way or another in timely manner, because if something happens after decades (like what's going on now) it will cause lots of damage…

There was a similar problem in Sweden. In the old system a person could first seek asylum, get denied, then seek a work visa, get denied, then seek a student visa, get denied and then repeat the process since now enough years has passed. People could also simply go underground for a period of time and then restart the process. Two law changes was added last year to prevent this. First, any decision remains in force i…

> In the old system a person could first seek asylum...

Yes but that still means communicating with the institutions and having some sort of legal status. What is en masse happening in the US and to a lesser extent was (or is, not sure, but see for example the Windrush scandal) happening in the UK is that people legally enter the country and have for a time legal standing to reside there, but that lapses, laws change etc., and just nobody cares deeply enough to solve the situation one way or another? And then decades pass and bad things start to happen. But all of this was entirely avoidable and I don't mean just 'not voting for Trump' avoidable, but in a systematic manner.

We could compare that to the situation in Spain where there is a group of illegal migrant workers who are exploited as cheap work force. Now they are given a chance to legalise their status but that too is happening after decades of neglect. Of course there are similar groups in other countries.

Re: Irish man with valid US work permit held in ICE detention for five months

#116

Post by belorn »

tpm wrote: post #115
belorn wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was a similar problem in Sweden. In the old system a person could first seek asylum, get denied, then seek a work visa, get denied, then seek a student visa, get denied and then repeat the process since now enough years has passed. People could also simply go underground for a period of time and then restart the process. Two law changes was added last year to prevent this. First, any decision remains in force i…

> In the old system a person could first seek asylum... Yes but that still means communicating with the institutions and having some sort of legal status. What is en masse happening in the US and to a lesser extent was (or is, not sure, but see for example the Windrush scandal) happening in the UK is that people legally enter the country and have for a time legal standing to reside there, but that lapses, laws change…

> We could compare that to the situation in Spain where there is a group of illegal migrant workers who are exploited as cheap work force

The term we should be using here is human trafficking. It is a extremely common practice in construction and farming. As a police officer said here in Sweden in a news article, if they went to a single major construction site the yearly budget for human trafficking violations would be used up for that site alone. It is an open secret that construction sites has a tier based system for workers, where the most illegal workers (and there are different degrees to that) get the most dangerous assignments, least amount of safety equipment, longest hours, and with the lowest pay.

A lot of the calculation on the cost of reduced immigration get based on the resulting increase in costs to construction and farming. It is quite insane how much of the economy is based on exploiting people.

Re: Irish man with valid US work permit held in ICE detention for five months

#117

Post by roryirvine »

tpm wrote: post #115
belorn wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was a similar problem in Sweden. In the old system a person could first seek asylum, get denied, then seek a work visa, get denied, then seek a student visa, get denied and then repeat the process since now enough years has passed. People could also simply go underground for a period of time and then restart the process. Two law changes was added last year to prevent this. First, any decision remains in force i…

> In the old system a person could first seek asylum... Yes but that still means communicating with the institutions and having some sort of legal status. What is en masse happening in the US and to a lesser extent was (or is, not sure, but see for example the Windrush scandal) happening in the UK is that people legally enter the country and have for a time legal standing to reside there, but that lapses, laws change…

The Windrush situation is a bit different - the people involved were British Subjects, and didn't need any documentation when they arrived in the UK.

The only thing that changed was the introduction of the "hostile environment" policy in 2012, meaning that everyone (including full UK citizens) must now prove that they have permission to be in the country before getting a job, renting a home, getting a bank account, etc.

The Windrush generation always had that permission, and continued to have it - what they didn't have was the documentation to prove it. And, to make matters worse, the Home Office had disposed of their arrival records so in many cases it became all but impossible for them to get it.

(I know this is a minor quibble, but I think it's worth pointing out that the people affected shouldn't have needed to regularise their situation, because it was never irregular in the first place!)

Re: Irish man with valid US work permit held in ICE detention for five months

#118

Post by roryirvine »

metalcrow wrote: post #107
1attice wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is how the guidelines read. If practice varies from theory, one must ask who, and what, is being practiced.

Well not exactly. The guidelines are contradictory. They say that "Anything that good hackers would find interesting" is on topic, but "Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports" are off topic. How do you resolve the difference? It's just a cultural decision as to what is allowed and what isn't.

Discussions about visas and immigration have been a core HN feature for the past decade: https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=proberts

Re: Irish man with valid US work permit held in ICE detention for five months

#119

Post by vargr616 »

FireBeyond wrote: post #78
instagib wrote: post #77

He overstayed the 90 day fiancé visa. Got married eventually. That should have triggered a 5-10 year bar from re-entering the US. He could have applied for legal status immediately and it is usually waived if you pass the interview process. Instead, 20 years later he applied for a green card to get a temporary work permit which is usually granted eligible while applying for permanent residency. So he had no work perm…

> He overstayed the 90 day fiancé visa. Got married eventually. That should have triggered a 5-10 year bar from re-entering the US. > He could have applied for legal status immediately and it is usually waived if you pass the interview process. "Why do people come here illegally? Do it properly!" I immigrated here from Australia. It would have been cheaper, and faster, to come here on the VWP, get married, and apply…

i fully agree with deporting the first "lady" on the same grounds. We either respect the rule of law or we don't

Re: Irish man with valid US work permit held in ICE detention for five months

#120

Post by pas »

palmotea wrote: post #109
ylow wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no obligation to provide the public with his life story. Even if provided, few really understand the US immigration process to really comprehend what it means. And finally, does it matter? Even if deportation is fully legally and ethically justified, do the ends justify the means?

> There is no obligation to provide the public with his life story. There is an obligation that a reputable newspaper will publish all relevant facts. The initial version of this article was misleading and appeared to omit relevant context to create a sympathetic story. However, the article has since been updated: > Culleton entered the US in 2009 on a visa waiver programme and overstayed the 90 day-limit but, after…

the relevant facts would be, whether this guy has a criminal record. the rest is (legal) bullshit.

laws are a (social) technology, enforcing them blindly is just as stupid as any kind of extremism, like "just ban private property" or "just let the market sort it out" and everything in between, and around. ("yes, all men" and so on.)

after all there are laws about detention too. if I were DHS I'd be very afraid not to get picked up by law enforcement for breaking them. oh wait. :(

and yes, there's a political goal. the polity wants to remove some people. the machinery is set to work. still, there are better and worse ways to do this. keeping this guy in this hunger games box is more expensive and less humane than putting him on a plane to Ireland.

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