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US destroying its reputation as a scientific leader – European science diplomat

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Re: US destroying its reputation as a scientific leader – European science diplomat

#111

Post by dragontamer »

klodolph wrote: post #62
meowface wrote: post #15

All I can say is let us all hope this is merely the American decade of humiliation and not the beginning of the American century of humiliation.

I hope it’s like what happened to countries like England, France, and Spain. You see your empire collapse but the country itself remains intact. England “gave up” scientific and technological leadership during the 20th century. (That’s a tongue-in-cheek take on it, don’t read too much into it.)

Yes but Spain, England, and France all had decade long declines that reversed. Except you know, at the end. When it didn't reverse.

We are witnessing the end of... something. Is it the end of the Roman Republic or is this the end of the Roman Empire?

Two very different situations despite being so politically fraught and full of change.

Re: US destroying its reputation as a scientific leader – European science diplomat

#112

Post by ahmedfromtunis »

layer8 wrote: post #94
ahmedfromtunis wrote: post #74

I recently read "Chip War" and it talked about an era (around the 80s and 90s) were american dominance on electronics (and economy) seemed in deep decline. Japan was the next big thing. But the collective efforts of some government agencies, academia and the private sector helped reverse the trend. American dominance is sure not a given but with an almost century of inertia, all hope is not lost (especially compared…

The current administration is braking hard against the inertia.

Even the concerted effort of a competent administration wouldn't be enough to cancel a system that's a century in the making.

Keyword: competent.

Re: US destroying its reputation as a scientific leader – European science diplomat

#113

Post by cgio »

silisili wrote: post #76
lisbbb wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What the US needs first and foremost is a better future for its own citizens. We have abandoned our youth to unemployment and underemployment.

Agreed with this sentiment. The average American doesn't care about any of this. Why would they? You have someone working 40+ hours a week to just barely be able to afford a dumpy apartment, with no real prospects or signs of escape - tell them that the US may no longer be paying top dollar to import the smartest people around the globe and see what they care. In order for all of this to work cleanly, you need the ev…

It is a rationale, but ironically a very socialist one, which I believe would be anathema to the people actually making the decisions and the people who voted for them too.

Re: US destroying its reputation as a scientific leader – European science diplomat

#114

Post by meowface »

embedding-shape wrote: post #99
meowface wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's very likely counterfactually better than USSR (now Russian) or Chinese hegemony. Imagine if Al Gore had won 2000 - America at the helm while growing increasingly wary of violent foreign interventions seems like the least bad path for Earth. (I am not sure if such a path still remains.) China ultra-liberalizing and becoming a democracy and then the hegemon could be an okay path but I am not too optimistic…

> I think it's very likely counterfactually better than USSR (now Russian) or Chinese hegemony. Why is it either or the other? Just because the US happens to turn inwards and stop acting like the world police, doesn't mean that other countries suddenly start dreaming of world domination. China and Russian both have plenty of problems in their home fronts and surrounding areas.

It seems likely that at least for a few more centuries, humanity and Earth are going to play the typical geopolitical games they've played during the past centuries.

China and Russia are consistently led by ruthless people who like power. Plus, even if China does only just conquer Taiwan and then leaves everyone else alone as the hegemon, there's still the matter of them oppressing ~20% of the humans on the planet (their own people). Even if it's the sort of oppression that you don't necessarily ever notice so long as you always stay in line.

Re: US destroying its reputation as a scientific leader – European science diplomat

#115

Post by estearum »

heironimus wrote: post #89
afavour wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The U.S. Is Funding Fewer Grants in Every Area of Science and Medicine https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2025/12/02/upshot/trump-... Far too early to know the exact long term effects but it’s definitely happening.

Is there any metric saying what the proper amount is or is it always “more”? Is there a point where others should do more and the US less?

It's totally valid to say we don't have the money to pay for this stuff, but to frame this as "others not doing enough" is hilariously juvenile. We do this because it's good for our economy, our people, and our global industrial dominance. Not charity, lol.

Re: US destroying its reputation as a scientific leader – European science diplomat

#116

Post by robswc »

driveby20251222 wrote: post #80
robswc wrote: post #52

I'm OOTL, but there _is_ a ton of waste when it comes to money we give out. The article itself even says here: > [...] the US government has cut scientific grants to academics working on diversity-related topics, halted biomedical grants to international partners, and demanded universities shut down academic units that “belittle” conservative ideas [...] I'd say it's fair to question if taxpayers should be paying for…

New account because I’m a lazy lurker, but “diversity related” projects could be as simple as trying to balance the number of studies done primarily on white males vs other groups. Especially in biomedical research, the gender of the population studied has a profound effect on the relevancy of results. By many measures, over 75% of studies have historically focused on white male populations, which for a variety of po…

Then it's subjective, what they define as a waste of money, this is par for the course when it comes to choosing what to fund.

You do not trust the current administration to be objective when it comes to cutting funding. I don't trust universities to be objective when it comes to funding.

I take any claims/studies from universities regarding gender/race with a huge grain of salt. There is too much room for bias and sensationalism. Not long ago there was a study claiming that white doctors were treating non-white babies with less care than white babies. However, the original authors made several mistakes and the study couldn't replicate.

Funnily enough, if you google percentage of medical studies that can't be replicated, you get 75% too :)

Re: US destroying its reputation as a scientific leader – European science diplomat

#117

Post by kova12 »

lawlessone wrote: post #68
kova12 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

>Seems like a lot of people were getting a lot of easy money, and now they are unhappy. who? can you be more specific than your generic "scientists" response?

[flagged]

Re: US destroying its reputation as a scientific leader – European science diplomat

#118

Post by CursedSilicon »

lisbbb wrote: post #54
verdverm wrote: post #32

It's not just science, all sorts of conferences and other group gatherings are actively avoiding meeting in the US to avoid difficulties for international travelers.

[flagged]

I too, enjoy having my DNA samples taken and my phones contents downloaded as an agent scrolls through 5 years of my social media history for wrongthink against Doritos Flamin' Führor

Re: US destroying its reputation as a scientific leader – European science diplomat

#119

Post by estearum »

lisbbb wrote: post #51
afavour wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s difficult to compete economically. If the US has welcoming immigration policies for scientists and will pay 10x what your country can afford then you’re going to end up with a brain drain. Recent changes in the US have changed that calculus but you can’t create an entire industry in the blink of an eye (and, of course, those changes can be reversed at any point)

What the US needs first and foremost is a better future for its own citizens. We have abandoned our youth to unemployment and underemployment.

Youth unemployment is right around its historical average.

Re: US destroying its reputation as a scientific leader – European science diplomat

#120

Post by [deleted] »

robswc wrote: post #98
bendmorris wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the previous Trump term "diversity related topics" included things like biodiversity which is an important area of research and should be apolitical. Not because of a shift in focus, but because of top-down orders to not fund anything related to "diversity." Conservatives in the past have also tried to belittle research grants to justify eliminating them, such as "studying X about fruit flies." It might sound sill…

> "diversity related topics" included things like biodiversity which is an important area of research and should be apolitical. Not because of a shift in focus, but because of top-down orders to not fund anything related to "diversity." Do you have a source for this? How can you prove it was simply because it was "diversity related" and not because it someone, somewhere determined the budget needed to be cut because…

[deleted]
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