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IKEA ditches Zigbee for Thread going all in on Matter smart homes

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Re: IKEA ditches Zigbee for Thread going all in on Matter smart homes

#111

Post by 0x000xca0xfe »

Chihuahua0633 wrote: post #80
0x000xca0xfe wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are these requirements public? I was working on a Matter device but it never got certified due to high cost/lack of customer demand.

Matter specifies that all firmware images must be signed so the device can verify authenticity before installation, ensuring they haven’t been tampered with. Matter further requires mechanisms to prevent unauthorized firmware execution and ensure that firmware can't be downgraded. Matter states that firmware images “may be encrypted.” This is not a requirement, though encryption is allowed and may add security ( http…

This sounds like it only affects OTA updates going through the Matter stack, not an explicit requirement to block serial flashing.

Disclaimer: I haven't tried serial flashing of Shelly/Sonoff Matter-enabled devices myself, just remember some complaints of customers that failed to re-flash such devices.

Re: IKEA ditches Zigbee for Thread going all in on Matter smart homes

#112

Post by turtlebits »

macNchz wrote: post #93
Toutouxc wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you have a bunch of Zigbee devices, but at some point want to add some of the new ones, you need to start thinking about replacing all the perfectly working Zigbee devices or have a fragmented network. Yes, if you're using the manufacturer's half-assed smartphone app, but if you're on Home Assistant, like basically anyone who's serious about their smart home, having multiple kinds of smart devices isn't really a…

Perhaps I never put enough effort into it, but I've slowly coalesced on only having IKEA smart home products after years of acquiring piecemeal stuff and trying to wire it together with Home Assistant. I've shut down HA, and with every non-IKEA "smart" thing I have nowadays I just use the manufacturer's app (though I've become pretty sour on most smart devices overall and avoid them when possible). I didn't really ca…

Home Assistant "just works". Yes it has a ton of knobs, but in the 3 years I've been running it, it's had no issues. Certain manufacturer devices being flaky, yes, but as a platform, it's been rock solid. I've not touched its config in over a year and everything works as it should.

Re: IKEA ditches Zigbee for Thread going all in on Matter smart homes

#114

Post by snickerdoodle12 »

CharlesW wrote: post #76
snickerdoodle12 wrote: post #60

RIP. The ikea zigbee stuff was close to being best in class. Matter is still an unusable mess.

In my experience, Matter already works better than Zigbee and Z-Wave ever did, and it gets better every year. I'm interested in what your unusable mess of a system consists of, if you don't mind elaborating.

Just look at how long this page is:

https://www.home-assistant.io/integrations/matter/

Adding a device now requires a whole song & dance with bluetooth, a mobile phone and god knows what else.

Meanwhile zigbee is:

1. Buy a zigbee stick, there are dozens, they all work great

2. Press the permit join button in home assistant

3. Press a button on the device for 10 seconds or 3 times or whatever

4. You're done and it works!

Oh, and for some reason https://www.home-assistant.io/integrations/matter/#experimen... involves google cloud in the process of me testing a device I created locally on my own network

The final nail in the coffin is:

> It is recommended to run the Matter add-on on Home Assistant OS. This is currently the only supported option. Other installation types are without support and at your own risk.

So I can't even officially use this stuff without uprooting my entire operating system.

Re: IKEA ditches Zigbee for Thread going all in on Matter smart homes

#115

Post by philjohn »

Toutouxc wrote: post #31
WhyNotHugo wrote: post #21

This sucks. Matter is a closed ecosystem, enforced using a public key infrastructure (PKI) and device attestation certificates. Thread seems to require paying royalties if you want to ship devices. It’s disappointing that IKEA claims that this move is towards a more open ecosystem. On top of that, the switch breaks compatibility with existing hardware (except for the Touchlink functionality). If you have a bunch of Z…

> If you have a bunch of Zigbee devices, but at some point want to add some of the new ones, you need to start thinking about replacing all the perfectly working Zigbee devices or have a fragmented network. Yes, if you're using the manufacturer's half-assed smartphone app, but if you're on Home Assistant, like basically anyone who's serious about their smart home, having multiple kinds of smart devices isn't really a…

Yes and no.

Pairing a Matter device takes much longer than pairing a Zigbee device through Z2M in my experience, and the Matter add-on still sometimes needs restarting as it refuses to allow any more devices to pair after a while.

But - rather than need a Zigbee dongle (or manufacturer hub) if you've got Apple or Google devices such as HomePods you've got a ready made Thread network as they act as border routers.

Re: IKEA ditches Zigbee for Thread going all in on Matter smart homes

#117

Post by snickerdoodle12 »

olalonde wrote: post #101
echelon wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can I make a Matter device for myself?

Yes. https://developers.home.google.com/codelabs/matter-device

Can I sell it without paying a gazillion fees?

Spoiler alert: No. There's a whole bunch of bullshit: https://developers.home.google.com/matter/integration/pair#p...

You can sort of run your own device if you're fine with giving google far too much information and they can block you at any time.

Face it, bigtech has a hardon for closed ecosystems. If they could they'd make it so every computer that wants to send an ethernet packet has a private key blessed by some bigtech cabal which they can revoke, but luckily for us this standard predates this gross new fetish.

Re: IKEA ditches Zigbee for Thread going all in on Matter smart homes

#118

Post by ValentineC »

WhyNotHugo wrote: post #23
gorgoiler wrote: post #13

My first reaction here was horror: Home Assistant and Zigbee integrate perfectly with IKEA’s devices, and the devices are beautifully designed! Please don’t take these away! Only the other day did I marvel at how a low battery indicator flashes on one of my remotes when I use it. A design flourish that I really appreciated. But I read that Thread supports IPv6 via mesh networking. It did always feel a bit awkward hav…

> Can anyone here confirm that Matter/Thread will be a bright, open, and happy new future? Sorry, it’s a closed ecosystem. It relies on PKI and device attestation to ensure that only devices from approved partners are usable. It’s unlikely that small players can participate, and zero chance of any homebrew scene.

> It’s unlikely that small players can participate, and zero chance of any homebrew scene.

I personally think the worst part of this is that China manufacturers are less likely to produce Matter/Thread equipment.

Cheap China equipment has been great for Zigbee adoption. They're much less reliable, but fantastic for getting a smart home going for cheap.

Re: IKEA ditches Zigbee for Thread going all in on Matter smart homes

#119

Post by philjohn »

CharlesW wrote: post #74
yesimahuman wrote: post #65

Unfortunately, the writing's on the wall for mainstream adoption of Zigbee. For me, Leviton not making any more Zigbee smart switches was the last straw and I've prioritized Z-wave devices where possible. I also get much better performance out of Z-wave. Sad to see though, as the Zigbee devices I do have are working just fine. I don't really get the point of Matter or Thread when Z-wave works so well.

It's pretty straightforward: Z-Wave is a closed (one company owns and controls the tech and brand) hub-bound mesh, and really should've been displaced by an open solution long ago. Matter is an industry-standard IPv6-based application layer that works over Thread (the successor to ZigBee) and Wi-Fi.

Yes - but it does feel over-engineered in some places (for good reason, having device profiles that everyone adheres to makes supporting a new device of a given class a doddle for smart home platforms) and it is definitely more finicky at present to pair devices than with Zigbee.

If I had to wipe and re-setup my smart home with 100 Zigbee devices and 18 Matter over Thread devices (Tado smart thermostat and TRV's) the Zigbee devices would take me about half an hour in total to have back up and running in HomeAssistant, the Matter over Thread devices would take me around 2-3 hours as you have to pair them one-at-a-time.

Re: IKEA ditches Zigbee for Thread going all in on Matter smart homes

#120

Post by philjohn »

madwolf wrote: post #68
mongol wrote: post #34

What is the equivalent for zigbee2mqtt for Matter/Threads?

You just need a Thread border router and Matter devices connect to your HA without problems. I use Apple TV as a border router.

SMLight also do their PoE sticks that can be flashed to either talk Zigbee or Thread (but you'll need a border router, such as the OpenThread border router).

Their latest one has two radios so you can do both Zigbee and Thread from a single device.

I've found however, that Thread prefers several border routers around my house to operate well.

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