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ICE test train reaches speeds of up to 405.0 km/h

deutschebahn.com

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Re: ICE test train reaches speeds of up to 405.0 km/h

#111

Post by eqvinox »

lqet wrote: post #91
eqvinox wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The main cause (often somewhat hidden behind the term "decayed infrastructure") is that there are too many trains on too few tracks. Do you have a citation for this? The people I know from the DB bubble are telling me that while some places have not enough track (e.g. the infamous Frankfurt-Mannheim/Riedbahn), but the everywhere problem is that there's just fault over fault over fault in tracks (often switches, but…

> Do you have a citation for this? I don't, this is just my personal experience with passenger rail in southwestern Germany. The smaller lines with 1-2 trains per hour are usually extremely reliable, while the lines on crowded tracks are usually delayed, or cancelled completely. Note that many of the reliable lines I regularly used over the past 10-15 years ran on track equipment from the 19th century, some still wit…

Mhm. I'll absolutely agree some infrastructure is at its limit/oversubscribed, but I also think you're generalizing a bit too much from your own experience without data to back it up.

Btw. Wooden sleepers laid in the 19th century have completely rotted away by now; it's impossible for the line track itself to be that old (except very slow speed shunting tracks, maybe.)

Re: ICE test train reaches speeds of up to 405.0 km/h

#112

Post by prmoustache »

holowoodman wrote: post #108
adev_ wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> France has a separate high-speed train network, so speed differences between high-speed (TGV) and low-speed (freight, low class passenger Yes 100% right. Japan has the same where the Shinkansen uses dedicated track. If I do not say a mistake, China does the same too. The fact it never has been done in a modern country like Germany with a dense high speed train traffic like the ICE is clearly a sign of planning defi…

It's just a difference in aims and circumstances. Japan has multiple train companies operating different networks, so a separate network was the only thing they could build. France accepted the compromise that high-speed TGV stations are far outside of the city areas, like airports, which makes nominal travel times fast, but the first and last miles will always be slow local trains to the city centre. Germany wanted…

"France accepted the compromise that high-speed TGV stations are far outside of the city areas, like airports, which makes nominal travel times fast, but the first and last miles will always be slow local trains to the city centre. "

That is not true, some TGV dedicated stations have been put in remote area (mostly in far right areas), but there are lots of cities that have high speed train stopping at the central station in the center.

Re: ICE test train reaches speeds of up to 405.0 km/h

#113

Post by Eavolution »

prmoustache wrote: post #63
cyberax wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Road constructions of the 1960s are not effective for 21st century traffic demands. Citation needed. As I see it, the US is still riding on the coattails of 1960-s road construction. We should be doing more of it, in fact, not sabotaging it with bike lanes and road diets.

Bike lanes reduce congestion. Do you prefer being slowed down by people riding bikes?

To be fair there is a massive difference between separated bike lanes, which do achieve this, and just a painted line on the ground so the government could say they put a bike line in. Significant amounts in a lot of places are the latter.

Re: ICE test train reaches speeds of up to 405.0 km/h

#114

Post by LargoLasskhyfv »

Wurdan wrote: post #58
chmod775 wrote: post #52

This article communicates what this is about very poorly, so I'm not surprised a lot of people are asking "what is so special about this train?". The answer is: Nothing. Many ICE trains have the capability to go that fast* - and some already surpassed these speeds on test tracks decades ago. It's really nothing special to make a train go these speeds. What this test was supposed to show is that the real track (not a…

Isn't it also true that that area around Leipzig has been a thorn in the side of DB since the fall of the wall? I think I remember reading somewhere that the infrastructure in that area isn't ideal for high volume and speed of trains (due to stretches that only have a single track and a lack of guarded/signaled level crossings IIRC)

Possibly. But this is about the https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schnellfahrstrecke_Eltersdorf%... / https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erfurt%E2%80%93Leipzig/Halle_h... built rather recently, opened in 2017 or so. Have a look at the pictures, some interesting stuff there, like switches able to be driven over at 200kph, or just the scale of the elevated tracks in the general landscape.

Also interesting is, at least parts of the so called 'Feste Fahrbahn'(ballastless tracks) are of 'System Bögl', the same company that has joint ventures in China, to test and build Maglevs there. Though rather slow, more light light rail with no more than 160kph, but with an option for freight.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transport_System_Bögl

Pures Betongold! ...err... golden concrete...

Re: ICE test train reaches speeds of up to 405.0 km/h

#115

Post by supertrope »

lqet wrote: post #72
fjfaase wrote: post #8

I fear that the general public in Germany will not be praising this achievement. The once efficient and punctional trains in Germany have deteriorated severely in the past years due to lots of delayed maintenance causing lots of delays and even regular cancelations of trains. Also the road infrastructure is suffering from delayed maintenance.

> The once efficient and punctional trains in Germany have deteriorated severely in the past years due to lots of delayed maintenance causing lots of delays and even regular cancelations of trains. The main cause (often somewhat hidden behind the term "decayed infrastructure") is that there are too many trains on too few tracks. There are many reasons for that. I think the main ones are: * Political pressure to have…

Good call out on infrastructure. Infrastructure maintenance isn't cool and there's no ribbon cutting ceremony for fixing existing capital. The new government is finally allocating more resources for DB.

Train frequency is the most important aspect of transportation. It's probably more important than max speed or even ticket price. A train every 15 min means you don't have to make an appointment because one will be coming soon. At half an hour you will need to study the timetable and plan your life around it.

Re: ICE test train reaches speeds of up to 405.0 km/h

#116

Post by burnt-resistor »

pfannkuchen wrote: post #57
burnt-resistor wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nowadays, it also means balaclavaed, secretive, lawless, paramilitary disappearance "police".

Hey, if that’s what it takes to get the Americans to build high speed rail.

Morally-repugnant statement.

Re: ICE test train reaches speeds of up to 405.0 km/h

#117

Post by chgs »

Svip wrote: post #81
chgs wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is on time counted as time at every stop, or just the terminal. It’s easy to fake the terminal times with little impact by padding the timetable. Being on time at every station is far harder. Not sure how you compare a small simple system like Lord which is pretty much one line with a few branches with an integrated multi-national system like the entire Swiss railway either

The answer to your question is "it depends". Some also do weighed calculations, where it's "per passenger", which means trains that have a high passenger load being late have a larger impact than one with few passengers. At least in Denmark, where I am most familiar (though I expect most of Europe to be similar), it's per stop. As for the LIRR, it seems it's only the terminal station that counts: > Thus, a train is c…

Final destination minutes values are much easier to cheat so aren’t comparable even without the 6 minute “on time” issue.

Re: ICE test train reaches speeds of up to 405.0 km/h

#118

Post by cyberax »

ekunazanu wrote: post #60
cyberax wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Road constructions of the 1960s are not effective for 21st century traffic demands. Citation needed. As I see it, the US is still riding on the coattails of 1960-s road construction. We should be doing more of it, in fact, not sabotaging it with bike lanes and road diets.

> not sabotaging it with bike lanes and road diets If done right, human-centric infrastructure can create much better urban environments than car-centric ones.

Yes. Human-centric, not bike-lane centric. And humans prefer cars.

Re: ICE test train reaches speeds of up to 405.0 km/h

#119

Post by cyberax »

cuu508 wrote: post #54
cyberax wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Road constructions of the 1960s are not effective for 21st century traffic demands. Citation needed. As I see it, the US is still riding on the coattails of 1960-s road construction. We should be doing more of it, in fact, not sabotaging it with bike lanes and road diets.

More roads? More lanes?

Less housing density, to be precise.

Re: ICE test train reaches speeds of up to 405.0 km/h

#120

Post by cyberax »

Fulgen wrote: post #68
cyberax wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Road constructions of the 1960s are not effective for 21st century traffic demands. Citation needed. As I see it, the US is still riding on the coattails of 1960-s road construction. We should be doing more of it, in fact, not sabotaging it with bike lanes and road diets.

The Netherlands proved you can do bike lanes quite well, not every country has to be a nightmare for life quality like the US aspires to be.

You're thinking of Amsterdam? I used to live there.

Bikes are used there ONLY because there's no alternative to them. Transit takes too long, and there's no space for cars. And yet still around 20% of commutes in Amsterdam are by car.

> not every country has to be a nightmare for life quality like the US aspires to be.

The US is far, far, far ahead of Europe in urban quality of life that it's not even funny, if you disregard the dense hellscapes of SF and NYC.

This is easily seen in the number of children per capita. In modern societies, two groups of people tend to have more children ("inverted J-curve"):

1. Happy content people.

2. Desperately poor people.

Now look at Europe and the US, and I suggest looking at the US suburbs and not the dense cores.

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