Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Social anxiety disorder-associated gut microbiota increases social fear

pnas.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

111–120 of 152 posts

Re: Social anxiety disorder-associated gut microbiota increases social fear

#111

Post by NoPicklez »

reliablereason wrote: post #67
Tarsul wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am talking about the sugar in sweets. My daily apple does not appear to heighten my anxiety.

I have heard people say that eating fibers together with fructose(like when eating a apple) reduces the impact of fructose, as fibers create a lining on the gut wall reducing the absorption rate. Sounds reasonable. But i have had a hard time finding evidence verifying that hypotesis.

Its in most nutrition textbooks, it's partly why fiber is so important.

Eating fiber with any carbohydrates reduces the absorption rate. It's partly why eating an Apple is better for you than eating a lolly despite both being high in sugar.

Re: Social anxiety disorder-associated gut microbiota increases social fear

#112

Post by jjk166 »

theptip wrote: post #24
jjk166 wrote: post #16

I think it makes sense that our microbiome should be able to trigger such a response. If your microbiome is changing, it means that some microbe is gaining numbers it didn't previously have, and your current bodily functions, such as your immune system, aren't stopping it. That doesn't necessarily mean your immune system is compromised, but if it is then it would probably be good not to spend a lot of time around oth…

The problem with Evolutionary Psychology is that it’s easy to construct this sort of “just so” story for pretty much any causal link, and they are not falsifiable. IMO the simpler hypothesis here is that this isn’t anything adaptive, it’s just another example of how biology is like spaghetti code; changing one chemical signal will affect an essentially random set of downstream systems, some of which can be causally c…

> IMO the simpler hypothesis here is that this isn’t anything adaptive, it’s just another example of how biology is like spaghetti code; changing one chemical signal will affect an essentially random set of downstream systems, some of which can be causally connected to psychology/behavior.

That's not a competing hypothesis. Obviously the change to the gut affects other things, some of which happen to impact psychology and behavior.

The question is why does this particular change to gut microbiome have such a similar impact on two different species that diverged many tens of millions of years ago? "It just does" is not a very satisfying answer.

Re: Social anxiety disorder-associated gut microbiota increases social fear

#113

Post by esperent »

cjbgkagh wrote: post #79
edwcross wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you mind citing which kind of cheese you eat? Because much cheese has little to no lactose, and also goat lactose does not necessarily have the same effect as cow lactose. Finally, the fats and proteins in cheese affect digestion and possibly sugar absorption.

Honestly when battling sugar cravings it would be rather large chunks of parmesan cheese because I find it rather sweet. I assumed that was due to lactose but perhaps I'm wrong about that. It could also be that even a small amount of lactose tastes sweet after a while of not eating sugar.

Parmesan has close to zero lactose. However, it has an extremely high level of free glutamate, up to 1.6%, which is why it tastes delicious and makes other food taste delicious. Probably should avoid it, along with MSG, if you have blood pressure issues. Probably fine otherwise.

Re: Social anxiety disorder-associated gut microbiota increases social fear

#114

Post by esperent »

xdavidliu wrote: post #75
cjbgkagh wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most direct substitution was cheese, lactose does not appear to have the same effect on me as fructose or sucrose. I mostly eat kale for vegetables, this also helps with subclinical insulin resistance and inflammation. I think roasting vegetables may end up being too sweet. I did an extended 5 day water fast to kick start the microbiome changes I undertook it as an experiment and the effectiveness in lifting brai…

i thought most cheese has way less lactose, if any, than milk?

Really depends on the cheese. Most has less than milk but for some like cottage cheese it's still pretty high. Other hard cheeses like parmesan it's basically zero.

You could use a rule of thumb that hard/aged cheeses are low lactose. But there's outliers like brie/camembert that are very low lactose even when relatively fresh.

Re: Social anxiety disorder-associated gut microbiota increases social fear

#116

Post by esperent »

snovv_crash wrote: post #92
reliablereason wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You say sugar, but are you referring to glucose or fructose? There is a meaningful amount of scientific literature connecting fructose and inflammation. The AVERAGE human can only digest about 30g of fructose a day. Some substantially more, some substantially less. A can of soda or three apples is about 30g of fructose. Inflammation (high- and low grade)then being a second step linking to anxiety.

Athletes consume 50g of fructose (and 50g of glucose) per hour. It's actually fairly easy to train yourself to this level.

> Athletes consume 50g of fructose (and 50g of glucose) per hour

...while actively competing in endurance events. They don't do this while sitting on the couch in the evening. And it's very specifically only endurance trained athletes who do this, sprinters would never need to consume that much sugar.

It's a valid point though, a sugary snack or sports drink directly before hitting the gym for a hard workout session is probably fine, as long as your blood wasn't already saturated with glucose from earlier sugary foods, and as long as you don't have insulin resistance.

Re: Social anxiety disorder-associated gut microbiota increases social fear

#117

Post by kayamon »

BLKNSLVR wrote: post #99
kayamon wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After trying a lot of things what worked for me was cutting out negative food; usually gluten, lactose, fructose. Probiotics never did anything for me.

What makes gluten a negative food? (outside of being coeliac)

Nothing specific, simply your own stomach. Every human is different. Some people can eat spicy foods, some people can't. Best strategy is to learn for yourself what make you happy when you wake up and what makes you feel bad. Listen to your own body, make changes.

Re: Social anxiety disorder-associated gut microbiota increases social fear

#118

Post by Zaylan »

I've experienced social anxiety myself and always thought it was just part of who I am. Seeing that gut microbiota might influence something as specific as social fear and that it can even trigger it in mice is honestly a bit unsettling.

I'm really curious whether this kind of research could lead to something beyond the usual therapy or medication. It would be amazing to see new treatments emerge that are based on the microbiome.

Re: Social anxiety disorder-associated gut microbiota increases social fear

#119

Post by Geee »

lamp_book wrote: post #104
Geee wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's this one person who claims to have found out that theses probiotics need to be amplified into a megadose, and subsequently they cured themselves from social anxiety. I'm not sure if there are other people who have replicated, but the initial report seems trustworthy. See https://pdfcoffee.com/experimental-treatment-for-social-phob...

I’ve seen people who seem to know what they’re talking about cast doubt that you could create your own probiotic yogurt in a typical kitchen since other strains are likely to dominate without a sterile environment and careful methods.

The strain you want has a huge headstart, and there shouldn't be much bacteria in boiled milk to begin with. Containers can be also sterilized with boiling water. Then keep it cool after it's done (14 hours). It doesn't seem likely that some other strain would dominate, but who knows.

Re: Social anxiety disorder-associated gut microbiota increases social fear

#120

Post by kenjackson »

cwmoore wrote: post #96
kenjackson wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why wouldn’t it be? Do you know which ones exhibit the desired characteristic?

The ones that aren’t food shaped name brand products or fruit colored sugar water.

I’m fairly certain that is not accurate given I was vegetarian for over a decade.
Post reply on HN