It's interesting, if we assume that the microbiota "wants" something (like other viruses or bacteria trying to affect the host in some way) and learned it evolutionary then when inside a human it tends to avoid other humans probably due to some disadvantages of the contacts for them. But why? It looks a little strange because humans are highly social species to the edge of survivability so the microbiota just risks losing the host completely.
Social anxiety disorder-associated gut microbiota increases social fear
101–110 of 152 posts
Re: Social anxiety disorder-associated gut microbiota increases social fear
#102I know from personal experience that eating sugar does induce more anxiety in me. This might sound weird but I can "physically feel" in my head a certain anxiety when e.g. I think about something awkward. This "physical feel" stopped being there when I stopped eating sweets for a few weeks. One reason why I try to keep my sugar intake down (the other being in danger of getting diabetes...). Thus, I wholly believe thi…
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Re: Social anxiety disorder-associated gut microbiota increases social fear
#103I know from personal experience that eating sugar does induce more anxiety in me. This might sound weird but I can "physically feel" in my head a certain anxiety when e.g. I think about something awkward. This "physical feel" stopped being there when I stopped eating sweets for a few weeks. One reason why I try to keep my sugar intake down (the other being in danger of getting diabetes...). Thus, I wholly believe thi…
Sugar? Why not caffeine?
I swear that a 4+ week coffee and caffeinated holiday improved emotional regulation and turns down OCD behaviours and anxiety.
Not sure if this is microbiota-related or related to down-regulation of neuroreceptors activated by coffee compounds.
I’ve heard arguments such as “well… caffeine is cleared within hours so a weeks-long effect is placebo”. Say what you want.
Re: Social anxiety disorder-associated gut microbiota increases social fear
#104I've seen probiotic supplements that have strains that claim to help with anxiety and depression, but I've never really looked into them because I'm quite skeptical they do anything. But if anyone is familiar with them and has any feedback I'd be interested to hear it.
There's this one person who claims to have found out that theses probiotics need to be amplified into a megadose, and subsequently they cured themselves from social anxiety. I'm not sure if there are other people who have replicated, but the initial report seems trustworthy. See https://pdfcoffee.com/experimental-treatment-for-social-phob...
I’ve seen people who seem to know what they’re talking about cast doubt that you could create your own probiotic yogurt in a typical kitchen since other strains are likely to dominate without a sterile environment and careful methods.
Re: Social anxiety disorder-associated gut microbiota increases social fear
#105I think it makes sense that our microbiome should be able to trigger such a response. If your microbiome is changing, it means that some microbe is gaining numbers it didn't previously have, and your current bodily functions, such as your immune system, aren't stopping it. That doesn't necessarily mean your immune system is compromised, but if it is then it would probably be good not to spend a lot of time around oth…
Beneficial for the group, not the individual, I suppose.
How is it not beneficial for the individual to avoid threats to their health and safety?
Re: Social anxiety disorder-associated gut microbiota increases social fear
#106I've suffered with social anxiety for a very long time. Thirty years ago a doctor prescribed a MAOI which immediately transformed me into a social butterfly (which in hindsight was a very difficult transition). This forever proved to me what the doctor had told me: it is all about chemical balance in the brain. The problem, of course, was the danger. I could die within minutes if I ate fermented food without taking t…
Anxiety is not identical to depression, but consider: "The Chemical Imbalance Theory of Depression: Where Is It Going?"
https://www.madinamerica.com/2020/02/chemical-imbalance-theo...
"The spurious chemical imbalance theory of depression is arguably the most destructive thing that psychiatry has ever done. ..."
The placebo effect can be very real...
And self-fulfilling predictions by authority figures can also be powerful...
Lack of neurotransmitters being produced in the gut due to microbiome issues is maybe the closest to a real "imbalance" -- like with the original article. Example: "How Your Gut Health Affects Your Brain: The Mind-Altering Power of Your Microbiome" https://www.sciencenewstoday.org/how-your-gut-health-affects... "Your gut microbes can produce neurotransmitters like serotonin, dopamine, gamma-aminobutyric acid (GABA), and acetylcholine—all of which are crucial for brain function. In fact, more than 90% of the body’s serotonin is produced in the gut, not the brain. This has profound implications for mood and emotional health."
Lots more health and wellness ideas collected by me here: https://github.com/pdfernhout/High-Performance-Organizations...
Good luck finding things that work for you -- assuming you are not happy just the way you are. "I like you just the way you are" - Mr. Rodgers https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPDTpqtmzPQ
Re: Social anxiety disorder-associated gut microbiota increases social fear
#107Earlier quoted context omitted.
The problem with Evolutionary Psychology is that it’s easy to construct this sort of “just so” story for pretty much any causal link, and they are not falsifiable. IMO the simpler hypothesis here is that this isn’t anything adaptive, it’s just another example of how biology is like spaghetti code; changing one chemical signal will affect an essentially random set of downstream systems, some of which can be causally c…
Could also be like climate change, where it correctly describes a broad phenomenon, but cannot be used to identify or classify any individual event. E.g., Wildfires are probably getting worse because of climate change, but it's difficult to say if the Pacific Palisades fire would not have happened in a cooler global climate. So, is microbiome-mediated social anxiety selected for as an advantageous trait for societies…
> you would expect protective social anxiety to arise in people whose situation hasn't much changed except that they've encountered people whose has (as with sedentary villagers encountering nomads who may or may not be about to ransack their settlement).
No, you would not expect that. If rats that self-isolate when their gut micro-biomes change avoid diseases that other rats get afflicted with, then evolution will lead to the mechanism spreading through the rats over time. The rats do not need to know why self-isolating helps, they do not need to even know that self-isolating helps, and they do not need to be in the position where it would help the most.
Re: Social anxiety disorder-associated gut microbiota increases social fear
#108I know from personal experience that eating sugar does induce more anxiety in me. This might sound weird but I can "physically feel" in my head a certain anxiety when e.g. I think about something awkward. This "physical feel" stopped being there when I stopped eating sweets for a few weeks. One reason why I try to keep my sugar intake down (the other being in danger of getting diabetes...). Thus, I wholly believe thi…
Sugar? Why not caffeine? I swear that a 4+ week coffee and caffeinated holiday improved emotional regulation and turns down OCD behaviours and anxiety. Not sure if this is microbiota-related or related to down-regulation of neuroreceptors activated by coffee compounds. I’ve heard arguments such as “well… caffeine is cleared within hours so a weeks-long effect is placebo”. Say what you want.
Well I don't think they're saying that wouldn't happen with caffeine, just that this is their experience with sugar.
Re: Social anxiety disorder-associated gut microbiota increases social fear
#109Have anxiety. Got sick when working for FAANG. Had to take disability as a result.
Your guts are VERY tied to your brain, and your gut biome WILL change if you are stressed enough. When your biome goes off, LOTS of bad things can happen to you.
I was in constant pain and had IBS-C for two years until I learned how to manage by stress. But it came at a terrible cost of having to flounder a bunch of opportunities as a result.
If you have lower-left gut pain, talk to your doctor, but for me it was all stress and anxiety.
Re: Social anxiety disorder-associated gut microbiota increases social fear
#110I know from personal experience that eating sugar does induce more anxiety in me. This might sound weird but I can "physically feel" in my head a certain anxiety when e.g. I think about something awkward. This "physical feel" stopped being there when I stopped eating sweets for a few weeks. One reason why I try to keep my sugar intake down (the other being in danger of getting diabetes...). Thus, I wholly believe thi…
Yes same, my anxiety is completely gone on keto. It’s just really hard to constantly be in keto, so I limit my carbs which helps but isn’t quite the same