The Steam Deck is software-freedom friendly • Hacker News Board

Re: The Steam Deck is software-freedom friendly

#111

Post by kuhaku22 » Thu, Apr 03, 2025, 2:14 PM UTC

tossandthrow wrote: post #24

danso wrote: post #15

Sounds like the Switch 2 might be a bit more powerful and similarly priced to the 3-year-old Deck. But even if Switch’s hardware feature set was substantially better, Steam’s much cheaper (and more expansive) library is still the killer feature. I don’t think the Switch 1’s Zelda launch title has ever been discounted lower than $40 despite being 8 years old. On Steam, virtually every top title will be 50% within 2 ye…

My impression is that the general quality of games on steam is sub par the quality of, eg., Zelda. Even with a steam deck, I am probably going to get the Switch2, mostly because I can lower my head on in-game profiteering, which is increasingly prevalent on steam games.

Nintendo games have consistently disappointed me with their lack of depth in their stories. Breath of the Wild had an amazing open world, but the characters came off as two-dimensional and the final boss was completely disappointing. (there's something especially uncanny about having a protagonist who doesn't utter a word, even if it's meant to help players self-insert) Mario Odyssey was even more pitiful in how it retread the same surface level cartoonish villainy of Bowser kidnapping the princess. Nintendo certainly makes games that are fun to play, but as an adult, I've come to expect more from art, and plenty of the games on Steam actually respect the capability of their audience to not turn off their brains.

Re: The Steam Deck is software-freedom friendly

#112

Post by TiredOfLife » Thu, Apr 03, 2025, 2:15 PM UTC

TehCorwiz wrote: post #22

No company is your friend. But Valve does a great job at being consumer friendly. Steam is a great low-pressure sales environment. It provides features that make it more enjoyable for users to play, hang out, communicate, share content, mods. It doesn't harangue you or change your settings, or the UI, or your games (mostly) without reason and warning. Things work like you expect them to in other apps, back buttons wo…

Many of the consumer friendly decisions were a direct result of lost lawsuits.

Valve also has unleashed the scum that is lootboxes, paid battle passes, paid leveling, nft store (technically not nft, but 90% of one).

Re: The Steam Deck is software-freedom friendly

#113

Post by TiredOfLife » Thu, Apr 03, 2025, 2:17 PM UTC

dpatterbee wrote: post #7

whytevuhuni wrote: post #3

They’re not saints, especially with the games distribution platform monopoly they’re sitting on top of, but... I really think Valve have become the de-facto owners of the “don’t be evil” motto nowadays, even if they don’t advertise themselves as such.

Steam isn't really a monopoly though, everyone is free to use whatever marketplace they choose on PC. Steam's just the best one.

Same with Microsoft in 90's

Re: The Steam Deck is software-freedom friendly

#114

Post by johnnyanmac » Thu, Apr 03, 2025, 2:22 PM UTC

globnomulous wrote: post #41

danso wrote: post #15

Sounds like the Switch 2 might be a bit more powerful and similarly priced to the 3-year-old Deck. But even if Switch’s hardware feature set was substantially better, Steam’s much cheaper (and more expansive) library is still the killer feature. I don’t think the Switch 1’s Zelda launch title has ever been discounted lower than $40 despite being 8 years old. On Steam, virtually every top title will be 50% within 2 ye…

I wonder whether this kind of discounting is healthy. It's surely healthy for Valve's bottom line, but it introduces an element of unpredictability into pricing, creating an inconsistent reinforcement regimen, which is the kind that most effectively reinforces a behavior (namely the purchase of games). Discounting also debases the perceived value of something, which, in addition, I suspect, to reducing the joy of own…

It's a trickle down effect for sure. Where indies suffer the most. You have games getting away with $70 price tags, but your indie game you spent 2+ years on better no cost more than 15-20 a pop and better have a 50% launch discount. You really can't sustain yourself even as a true solo dev in western countries (let alone if you need to commission/hire an artist/composer).

And when I say "sustain in western countries" I'm talking the bog bottom line of "us federal minimum wage", coming down to approx. $15k/year. That's 1000 copies of a $15 game that is probably upped to 1800 copies after valve and other's cuts. Even that paltry marker is hard just becsuse the market is so saturated (and not in a good way).

It's only gonna get worse as a generation that is raised on mobile games and game pass settle in. The idea of spending money upfront from a game may be lost entirely.

>I also wonder whether Nintendo's pricing does a better job of maintaining the integrity of the experiences they want to offer players.

That was indeed an explicit strategy of Nintendo. Keep a premium brand and a price thst reflects that. Sales are rare to maintain this idea of an evergreen title that is always selling.

Re: The Steam Deck is software-freedom friendly

#115

Post by johnnyanmac » Thu, Apr 03, 2025, 2:25 PM UTC

keyringlight wrote: post #77

jerf wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would agree that the Switch's really big feature at this point is that it is where Nintendo games appear, and in that family-friendly-but-still-high-quality niche they are still worth chasing if you want them. I don't know how you get from there to "games on steam are sub par quality" because at this point, everything else is on Steam, so calling the rest of the Steam library "sub par" is effectively calling the en…

As far as quality goes, the main things steam looks for [0] to release is that it launches on the platforms you say it's available for, and that it matches the store page you've made for it. Presumably it'd have to be absolutely malicious for them to get involved past that [0] https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/store/review_process

Malicious, or to have an anime school and get on the bad side of a particular reviewer.

No, I will never forgive the Chaos;Head NOAH . Especially since it only got through from blowback as being part of the famous Steins gate franchise and dozens of other games got quashed later.

Re: The Steam Deck is software-freedom friendly

#116

Post by johnnyanmac » Thu, Apr 03, 2025, 2:29 PM UTC

kuhaku22 wrote: post #111

tossandthrow wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My impression is that the general quality of games on steam is sub par the quality of, eg., Zelda. Even with a steam deck, I am probably going to get the Switch2, mostly because I can lower my head on in-game profiteering, which is increasingly prevalent on steam games.

Nintendo games have consistently disappointed me with their lack of depth in their stories. Breath of the Wild had an amazing open world, but the characters came off as two-dimensional and the final boss was completely disappointing. (there's something especially uncanny about having a protagonist who doesn't utter a word, even if it's meant to help players self-insert) Mario Odyssey was even more pitiful in how it r…

Ehh, sounds like it wasn't your genre or mood, not that you "need adult games That respect your brain". Do you expect Cuphead to have this rich lore or to recreate the feeling of playing a Fleischmen-era cartoon?

Tastes will be different and I can respect that. But I feel there's no worse kind of criticism than one that is berating a game for something it was never targeting to do in thr first place. Why lambast a Mario game for it's lack of deep characterization instead of saying "I prefer a story-heavy game" and picking up the Last of Us?

Re: The Steam Deck is software-freedom friendly

#117

Post by benterix » Thu, Apr 03, 2025, 2:32 PM UTC

dtech wrote: post #86

j1elo wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's why lots of us are worried about when something happens to Gabe, and some black suited C level raven is promoted as CEO and starts asking questions like "why don't we push for the latest expansion packs? why don't we gate features behind subscriptions?" and all that anti-consumer shit that breaks with the original spirit of so many products.

That's unlikely to happen with Valve's ownership structure

He can sell his share at any moment.

Re: The Steam Deck is software-freedom friendly

#118

Post by johnnyanmac » Thu, Apr 03, 2025, 2:35 PM UTC

butlike wrote: post #98

lawn wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My impression is that the general quality of games on steam is sub par the quality of, eg., Zelda. An impossibly high bar given that the Zelda games are some of the most critically acclaimed games of all time.

It's not impossible... it happened once already, in 1986 with the release of Legend of Zelda 1. And it keeps happening with every new Nintendo console release where a new Zelda comes along. You can absolutely make a game to the quality of Zelda as an indie developer.

Can you really? Maybe, but I don't think it's cost effective. It requires a flawless art and tech pipeline, alone side masterful game design. You see how Nintendo can spend 2 years alone perfecting Mario's Jump and you realize the budget for that level of polish is enormous.

Not as enoirmouus as paying a studio in California to make a failed GaaS shooter service. But still a large step past a AA budget.

I'd say at the bare minimum you need a very solid staff of 5 to pull it off though. Hollow knight did it with a rough core of 3 devs + composer (and other support, of course). The very ambitious Toweers of towers of aghasba was reportedly 6 devs IIRC, but that's TBD and might have scaled up.

Re: The Steam Deck is software-freedom friendly

#119

Post by dpatterbee » Thu, Apr 03, 2025, 2:37 PM UTC

TiredOfLife wrote: post #113

dpatterbee wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Steam isn't really a monopoly though, everyone is free to use whatever marketplace they choose on PC. Steam's just the best one.

Same with Microsoft in 90's

Microsoft used its influence over OEMs to stifle their competition in the browser market. This blog post is about how Valve are very much not doing that.

Re: The Steam Deck is software-freedom friendly

#120

Post by Adverblessly » Thu, Apr 03, 2025, 2:44 PM UTC

tossandthrow wrote: post #24

danso wrote: post #15

Sounds like the Switch 2 might be a bit more powerful and similarly priced to the 3-year-old Deck. But even if Switch’s hardware feature set was substantially better, Steam’s much cheaper (and more expansive) library is still the killer feature. I don’t think the Switch 1’s Zelda launch title has ever been discounted lower than $40 despite being 8 years old. On Steam, virtually every top title will be 50% within 2 ye…

My impression is that the general quality of games on steam is sub par the quality of, eg., Zelda. Even with a steam deck, I am probably going to get the Switch2, mostly because I can lower my head on in-game profiteering, which is increasingly prevalent on steam games.

> My impression is that the general quality of games on steam is sub par the quality of, eg., Zelda.

My impression is that the general quality of games on the Switch (or Switch 2 or eShop) is sub par the quality of, e.g. Zelda. This is obviously because Zelda is a landmark title and it doesn't make sense to compare it with "the general quality" of games on Steam. It would make more sense to compare it with the quality of other landmark titles on Steam e.g. Baldur's Gate 3.

You can compare the general quality of games on Steam (which includes games like "Hentai Waifu 5") with the general quality of games on Switch (which includes games like "Hentai Waifu 5"), though I'm not sure it is that interesting of a comparison, since no one buys the "average" game but what they consider to be the best games on the platform.

I'd suspect that any attempt at an "objective" comparison (obviously, an impossible task) would land in favour of Steam simply because it has basically all of (core) gaming for most of history on it. Though obviously such an "objective" comparison would be meaningless for something like this where literally your subjective opinion should matter the most for your choice.