I wonder why there are no lawsuits from the companies that had to pay to unlock the trains and did not get any documentation what was fixed/replaced to get it running (in 10min) especially that it was not a single train that had to be unlocked. It's like having ransomware on the plc.
They have not been trained for this
111–120 of 160 posts
Re: They have not been trained for this
#112Earlier quoted context omitted.
As an Australian we have payid to transfer free and instantly between banks instead of needing a 3rd party app but I think he's right that if you are relying on IBAN and needing to do an individual bank transfer then it's not ideal. It should be as easy as possible to donate, imo it would be better even setting up a basic kofi or buy me a coffee account, or I see the Ukrainians using paypal all the time. It should be…
> As an Australian we have payid to transfer free and instantly between banks That... is what SEPA is, but built into the european banking system directly. > I think he's right that if you are relying on IBAN and needing to do an individual bank transfer then it's not ideal. It's not ideal that you can do a simple transfer by inputting the recipient's IBAN and an amount and be done with literally no third party invol…
> You think it's easier to require setting up a third party account, adding your card to it, getting the card authorised, and doing the payment that way, with fees.
> Than putting 20 digits in your own bank's application and pressing "send"?
Posting from U.S. (and admittedly a very U.S.-centric response), but in the case of Venmo/Paypal/buymeacoffee/Patreon/gofundme, yes.
I spent another half-hour trying to go the route of Wise suggested by a sibling comment but got stuck in the KYC hurdles. I already sent them my I.D. several times, but the selfie-verification flow won't complete for me, and I'm drawing the line at choosing not to install their app. (And well, I bit the bullet and installed app. It refuses to take a clear selfie, no matter how clear the the preview is /shrug)
Re: They have not been trained for this
#113Earlier quoted context omitted.
> As an Australian we have payid to transfer free and instantly between banks That... is what SEPA is, but built into the european banking system directly. > I think he's right that if you are relying on IBAN and needing to do an individual bank transfer then it's not ideal. It's not ideal that you can do a simple transfer by inputting the recipient's IBAN and an amount and be done with literally no third party invol…
> You think it's easier to require setting up a third party account, adding your card to it, getting the card authorised, and doing the payment that way, with fees. > Than putting 20 digits in your own bank's application and pressing "send"? Posting from U.S. (and admittedly a very U.S.-centric response), but in the case of Venmo/Paypal/buymeacoffee/Patreon/gofundme, yes. I spent another half-hour trying to go the ro…
> Posting from U.S.
Yes if you're trying to use SEPA from the US I can see that, no issue there.
But from the perspective of a very euro/german centric CCC[0], SEPA is really not complicated, and almost certainly free (I understand that a few banks still charge for those but most don't, possibly to a limit). So that's likely a blind spot of theirs: SEPA is probably the cheapest and most straightforward method for 95% of their donations or more.
Even more so as this is the central organisation, but the CCC is mostly a network of local clubs[1], so revenue to the national CCC is I assume almost entirely from the clubs shunting some of their income up
[0] if you check their front page, 1/2 to 2/3 the posts are in german, so are several of the pages
Re: They have not been trained for this
#114Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I highly encourage everyone to watch the previous presentation: https://media.ccc.de/v/37c3-12142-breaking_drm_in_polish_tra... According to the schedule [1], there's a presentation from that team titled "We've not been trained for this: life after the Newag DRM disclosure" that will start at 23:00 local time (in about 30 minutes at the time of this writing) on this livestream [2]. Edit: presentation's over and it…
Here's the live recording link for those who missed it and are too impatient to wait for the cleaned-up one: https://streaming.media.ccc.de/38c3/relive/233cb1d4-4833-538...
The Luigi-related reference of the talk at 37:03 of the livestream, "Delay, Deflect, Derail" (referring to the response by the Newag train manufacturer representatives, including the president and vice-president of the company, at the parliamentary committee meetings) got a round of applause from the audience.
The "...Derail" portion of the slogan references Newag's handout shown a few seconds earlier in the presentation.
Re: They have not been trained for this
#115Earlier quoted context omitted.
Here's the live recording link for those who missed it and are too impatient to wait for the cleaned-up one: https://streaming.media.ccc.de/38c3/relive/233cb1d4-4833-538...
The Luigi-related reference of the talk at 37:03 of the livestream, "Delay, Deflect, Derail" (referring to the response by the Newag train manufacturer representatives, including the president and vice-president of the company, at the parliamentary committee meetings) got a round of applause from the audience. The "...Derail" portion of the slogan references Newag's handout shown a few seconds earlier in the presenta…
One of the last slides:
Lessons learned?
Lawsuits are temporary, glory is forever.
Go public.Re: They have not been trained for this
#116Earlier quoted context omitted.
The payment information is a bit obfuscated, being only a parenthesized sequence of letters and numbers in the OP. IBAN: DE41 2001 0020 0599 0902 01 BIC: PBNKDEFFXXX Purpose: Lokomotive Payee: CCC eV
I don't suppose they have any other published, easier methods? I spent almost an hour trying to jump through the fiery, spinning hoops being dangled by my bank website only to finally at the end be given an "It looks like this part of our site isn't working. Please try again later." Thank you, bank /s For anyone else wanting to try their hand and weather the gauntlet, I found slightly more detail of their published b…
This is a registered European association using fee-less European payment standards to fund a lawsuit entirely in Europe involving only European parties.
Do you see the rest of the world complaining when no-one can send free uncomplicated transfers to fund a U.S. non-profit because the U.S.A. prefers to run a draconian consumer banking system?
The shier American arrogance in this comment thread gives me an aneurism. Fix your banking system, ours works.
Re: They have not been trained for this
#117Earlier quoted context omitted.
As an Australian we have payid to transfer free and instantly between banks instead of needing a 3rd party app but I think he's right that if you are relying on IBAN and needing to do an individual bank transfer then it's not ideal. It should be as easy as possible to donate, imo it would be better even setting up a basic kofi or buy me a coffee account, or I see the Ukrainians using paypal all the time. It should be…
> As an Australian we have payid to transfer free and instantly between banks That... is what SEPA is, but built into the european banking system directly. > I think he's right that if you are relying on IBAN and needing to do an individual bank transfer then it's not ideal. It's not ideal that you can do a simple transfer by inputting the recipient's IBAN and an amount and be done with literally no third party invol…
> You think it's easier to require setting up a third party account, adding your card to it, getting the card authorised, and doing the payment that way, with fees.
- You don't have to setup an account
- You don't have to get the card authorised (I don't know what this means)
- Adding your card numbers in takes me 10 seconds, in the case of Paypal, it's already there so no time
- Fee's are minimal, not even worth wondering about
In terms of donation, entering in the amount to donate and clicking submit is yes, easier than going into my bank's website, bringing up the international transfer, and it's asking me for SMS confirmation that I want to do this, and I can't be bothered going further.
edit: I think maybe we are fighting the wrong battle.
You think IBAN is super easy, and maybe in Europe it is.
I'm not in Europe though and neither is the other chap, so maybe the donations are very easy in Europe but not so much out of it.
I've never done an IBAN payment in my life but I've donated thousands and thousands of dollars to loads of places all over the world without issue for years including Ukraine, this is the first time I've seen a place only accepting an IBAN donation, which feels like a friction that is not there for other places.
Re: They have not been trained for this
#118Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't suppose they have any other published, easier methods? I spent almost an hour trying to jump through the fiery, spinning hoops being dangled by my bank website only to finally at the end be given an "It looks like this part of our site isn't working. Please try again later." Thank you, bank /s For anyone else wanting to try their hand and weather the gauntlet, I found slightly more detail of their published b…
This is a registered European association using fee-less European payment standards to fund a lawsuit entirely in Europe involving only European parties. Do you see the rest of the world complaining when no-one can send free uncomplicated transfers to fund a U.S. non-profit because the U.S.A. prefers to run a draconian consumer banking system? The shier American arrogance in this comment thread gives me an aneurism.…
i am doing little more than lamenting the hurdles placed in front of me that i couldn't figure out how to overcome (albeit with a dash of frustrated snark), after having spent north of three hours of my time today. i am not rich, nor well off by many reasonable measures. i rent a small room in a small town, hardly making ends meet, but i simply wanted to donate a couple bucks toward a cause i believe in, out of principle, as i'm not usually a donating type (see bit about renting a small room and barely making ends meet).
i wanted to leave some breadcrumbs for anyone else in a similar situation (that is, trying to donate from U.S., not the bit about wealth) trying to figure out how to make it work, because i sure expended some effort digging it up.
this specific discussion thread is a call to donate and to write here in solidarity in having done so. i may not have successfully donated cold, hard cash, but i'll dare say my pledge of most of my afternoon trying to move mountains in order to send some scratch their way fits in here. it may have barely registered as a drop in the bucket had i been successful, but i believe this is what the thread is about.
Re: They have not been trained for this
#119Earlier quoted context omitted.
> As an Australian we have payid to transfer free and instantly between banks That... is what SEPA is, but built into the european banking system directly. > I think he's right that if you are relying on IBAN and needing to do an individual bank transfer then it's not ideal. It's not ideal that you can do a simple transfer by inputting the recipient's IBAN and an amount and be done with literally no third party invol…
> You think it's easier to require setting up a third party account, adding your card to it, getting the card authorised, and doing the payment that way, with fees. > Than putting 20 digits in your own bank's application and pressing "send"? Posting from U.S. (and admittedly a very U.S.-centric response), but in the case of Venmo/Paypal/buymeacoffee/Patreon/gofundme, yes. I spent another half-hour trying to go the ro…
You're trying to send money internationally. It sounds like your bank doesn't want you to send money internationally. This is your problem with your bank.
I don't see why you'd need Wise for a one-off payment. Just go to the international transfer page at your bank and enter the details? Do they not have one?
Re: They have not been trained for this
#120Earlier quoted context omitted.
> As an Australian we have payid to transfer free and instantly between banks That... is what SEPA is, but built into the european banking system directly. > I think he's right that if you are relying on IBAN and needing to do an individual bank transfer then it's not ideal. It's not ideal that you can do a simple transfer by inputting the recipient's IBAN and an amount and be done with literally no third party invol…
> You think it's easier to require setting up a third party account, adding your card to it, getting the card authorised, and doing the payment that way, with fees. - You don't have to setup an account - You don't have to get the card authorised (I don't know what this means) - Adding your card numbers in takes me 10 seconds, in the case of Paypal, it's already there so no time - Fee's are minimal, not even worth won…
You're donating to a European place. For Ukraine they let you send money directly to the US account of the entire country of Ukraine (an account held at JPMorgan Chase by the way!! That's right, having the world's reserve currency allows American private entities to fractional-reserve entire countries) and earmark it a certain way, and the National Bank of Ukraine would figure it out. That's a highly unusual way to do things. If you want to send a payment to a specific person inside Ukraine, normally you would give their Ukrainian account number to your bank and let your bank figure it out, just like you are doing here.
This feels like an "American discovering the outside world for the first time and discovering that American systems aren't very good" moment.