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Barcelona will eliminate tourist apartments

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Re: Barcelona will eliminate tourist apartments

#111

Post by ghaff »

coryrc wrote: post #85
JoshTriplett wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People who own a home, and don't have plans to move, would benefit from housing prices falling everywhere : property taxes go down, and other prices correlated with housing go down. Two categories where people don't want pricing to go down: If you have plans to move and prices aren't falling everywhere , the proceeds of a sale aren't enough to buy elsewhere. And if your bank owns the home rather than you, falling pri…

That's not how property taxes work.

The cost/student doesn't go down just because local housing prices go down--which is where a lot of local taxes go to--and, in fact, the cost/student often goes up if you increase the population density.

Re: Barcelona will eliminate tourist apartments

#112

Post by laGrenouille »

xvaier wrote: post #52
abdullahkhalids wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's interesting hotels that feel like an AirBnB don't really exist. Even though the professional AirBnB hosts are doing all the functions that hotels do. Why not the reverse.

They do exist and are increasingly common for new hotel builds, at least where I live. Here is an example of one in Montréal that I stayed in last autumn: https://griffintownhotel.com/en-us/apartments/

Hotels with similar amenities are usually priced at absurdly high rates for corporate clients.

The place you linked to has the equivalent of a studio apartment with no laundry machine going for over 9000 CAD for a month. AirBnB has plenty of one bedrooms going for a third of that.

Re: Barcelona will eliminate tourist apartments

#113

Post by alistairSH »

zamadatix wrote: post #53
deutschepost wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If people would just rent out their flats when they are not living there that would be fine. But people and corporations buy up housing and put them on Airbnb for above market prices. Suddenly you have no more place to live for the locals who have to work in the city. And a very high priced hotel room for the tourists.

The locals problem seems easy to follow but why do tourists continue picking the airbnb style offers if they are so over priced?

Overpriced relative to a long-term rental in the same area.

Airbnb is a nightly rate that competes with hotel pries. Long-term rentals are a monthly rate that is usually much less than the nightly rate of a hotel or Airbnb.

Example: A hotel near my house is about ~$400/night. Or ~$12,000/month. Rent for a 1-bed apartment across the street is about $3000/month.

Re: Barcelona will eliminate tourist apartments

#115

Post by stavros »

hombre_fatal wrote: post #59
lbwtaylor wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's just basic urban planning and zoning. You can't run a factory in your apartment and you can't run a hotel. Plenty of cities restrict where hotels can operate. This is nothing special and certainly not authoritarian. These measures are quite popular because, shocking, people in residential neighborhoods like have real neighbors rather than hotel guests.

Yes, obviously everyone wants to be the last person allowed to move in somewhere, that's why they support these sorts of policies that foment resentment. NIMBYism also stifles most development in the US. But I don't see how it's not authoritarian. Giving these 10k flats to locals isn't going to put a dent in the housing economy.

If you think zoning is authoritarian, you also think a bunch of normal, everyday measures are authoritarian.

Re: Barcelona will eliminate tourist apartments

#116

Post by sangnoir »

SeanAnderson wrote: post #25

Barcelona has a population of ~1.7 million. The metro area surrounding is ~5.7 million. The metro area grew by ~100k in the past four years. They are freeing up ~10,000 houses over the next four years with this legislation. Barcelona built ~15,000 new properties between 2011 and 2020. The math don't math. It's a drop in the bucket. The entire impact of AirBnB + all housing built in the last decade does not offset the…

> The math don't math. It's a drop in the bucket.

Since this is HN, I was expecting a little more rigor in proving the math not mathing: how many people can be housed in 15 000[1] + 10 000 houses? How small is the drop and how big is the bucket?

From sibling comment, average density is 2.51 people per home * 25k houses which works out to 62 750 housed people out of the 100 000 population growth. If my math is correct, that is significantly more than a drop in the bucket, considering the Airbnb component is 40% of that number, or just over 25k people - which is a big drop indeed for a 100k bucket

[1] Edit: I later realized your comment has numbers from multiple time windows. Substitute "15 000" with whatever number of houses were built/added in the past 4 years.

Re: Barcelona will eliminate tourist apartments

#117

Post by km3r »

JoshTriplett wrote: post #47
doctorpangloss wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone wants lower housing prices, except for the house they currently own.

People who own a home, and don't have plans to move, would benefit from housing prices falling everywhere : property taxes go down, and other prices correlated with housing go down. Two categories where people don't want pricing to go down: If you have plans to move and prices aren't falling everywhere , the proceeds of a sale aren't enough to buy elsewhere. And if your bank owns the home rather than you, falling pri…

Too bad prop 13 means prices would have to drop significantly before any longterm CA homeowner would see any drop. And the valuation dropping that much wiping out so much of their "on paper" wealth would be very unpopular.

Re: Barcelona will eliminate tourist apartments

#118

Post by [deleted] »

mattrighetti wrote: post #48
deutschepost wrote: post #3

Good. Tourists should sleep in hotels and locals should sleep in their flats. Platforms like AirBnB only put oil in the fire when it comes to housing crises.

> Tourists should sleep in hotels and locals should sleep in their flats. What if we let people decide what they should/n't do with their own property instead?

[deleted]

Re: Barcelona will eliminate tourist apartments

#119

Post by christkv »

pelorat wrote: post #94
SeanAnderson wrote: post #25

Barcelona has a population of ~1.7 million. The metro area surrounding is ~5.7 million. The metro area grew by ~100k in the past four years. They are freeing up ~10,000 houses over the next four years with this legislation. Barcelona built ~15,000 new properties between 2011 and 2020. The math don't math. It's a drop in the bucket. The entire impact of AirBnB + all housing built in the last decade does not offset the…

Here in Europe building denser housing is extremely frowned upon by cultural conservatives, who unfortunately are in charge everywhere. That's why there's hardly any high-rises in Europe. Extreme height restrictions combined with extreme regulatory costs is what has lead to this issue. Show a European politician, especially a local one in charge of urban development, an image from Tokyo and they will recoil in horror…

Spain is the one the de densest countries if not the densest country in Europe. Most people live in flats in dense cities.

Re: Barcelona will eliminate tourist apartments

#120

Post by matwood »

ghaff wrote: post #42
HDThoreaun wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hotels suck. I want a hotel with no staff. Thats airbnb

And for me, I value predictability and the availability of staff if I need them. I've certainly stayed at many B&Bs that didn't have a 24-hour desk but, by and large, I'm looking to stay at places where I can count on things going smoothly.

For me, 2 nights or less then I look for a hotel. The reliability is important. But more nights, I prefer an AirBnB. I can cook meals, wash clothes, and it just feels more comfortable.
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