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Do not try to be the smartest in the room; try to be the kindest

jorgegalindo.me

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Re: Do not try to be the smartest in the room; try to be the kindest

#111

Post by jzb »

thih9 wrote: post #63
Kye wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would being unkind accomplish here?

It's not about being unkind, it's about not being kind; these are not the same. Being kind to a person that behaves as described in the grandparent comment could communicate that you find this kind of behavior helpful. Fine if that's really the case; problematic for everyone if not.

I think people are conflating “kind” with a range of other behaviors. You can be kind while addressing poor performance, etc. You address the behavior, you might even have to fire someone, but those are not incompatible with kindness - if you’ve given someone ample opportunity, and clarity, then you’ve been kind. It’s unkind to let someone get to the point of firing without being clear that their job is at risk. It’s not unkind to take action when their performance threatens the organization, team, etc.

I think most people would agree Fred Rogers was kind - but I have to imagine he had to fire people from the show over the course of its run.

Re: Do not try to be the smartest in the room; try to be the kindest

#112

Post by ransom1538 »

The title was worded wrong, I think engineers (at least me), would make more sense out of: "The world needs more good people, the world does not need more smart people." Engineers often confuse "good people" with "smart people". But they are not related at all. And no, we don't need more smart people optimizing ads. We need more good people helping.

Re: Do not try to be the smartest in the room; try to be the kindest

#113

Post by lotsofpulp »

Kye wrote: post #97
codelikeawolf wrote: post #59

Ever since that back and forth about "East Coast being kind vs West Coast being nice" thing a while back[1], I think it's important to distinguish the two. Because they are noticeably different (at least to me) and shouldn't be used interchangeably. I want someone to be kind to me in a meeting. I think niceness could seriously inhibit progress. A kind person will tell me that an idea I have won't work, but they'll of…

This is real. When the car broke down in a turn lane in the rain: lots of honking behind me When the hazard lights came on: honking stopped, people materialized to help push it back out of the road

I don’t understand the relevance of this example. Without the hazard light, there’s a 99% chance the person is simply looking at their phone, needlessly delaying everyone else, hence the honking to alert them to move. What else is another driver supposed to do?

A hazard light means there is a problem that can’t be solved with honking.

Re: Do not try to be the smartest in the room; try to be the kindest

#114

Post by [deleted] »

matt_heimer wrote: post #98
baazaa wrote: post #77

If we tallied up all technical projects in the Western world that failed, how many would be failing due to lack of kindness versus, say, straight-forwards incompetence? Because 100% fall in the latter category in my experience. One of the problems with engineers counter-signalling engineering values (like actual technical competence) is that we live in a world where those values are extremely underrated while every m…

I think you could argue that long term lack of kindness at all levels of an organization leads to organizational technical incompetence. It creates hostile work environment where employees don't feel valued which leads to talent attrition. Yes, only valuing kindness with valuing technical competence is not ideal but so is the inverse. You want both.

[deleted]

Re: Do not try to be the smartest in the room; try to be the kindest

#115

Post by steveBK123 »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #110
steveBK123 wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To summarize the idea in a work concept for those who won't read through - East Coast "kind" would be to tell the person working for you about their performance issues early, in a constructive feedback manner such that they could course correct or find a role they are better suited for. The hope is they either improve in the role, find a new role internally, or decide to move on before having to stomach a firing. Wes…

>Eventually you will end up firing them without much warning when a cut actually has to be made. Think Amazon PIP. I would bet managers on the east coast keep under performers around just to have people to cut also, doesn’t take a genius to figure out the strategy. You invest in people you think can improve and help you, you get rid of the ones that hurt you, and you keep the so so ones for when you need to sacrifice…

Most companies don't run an Amazon style PIP program where you HAVE to cut X% annually on every team.

Therefore, keeping around people who genuinely deserve firing is a drag on delivering. As a result it is always in your interest to get improvements out of your team members, whether by upskilling, role changing, hoping they leave on their own or worst case actually laying them off.

I've worked in financial service tech for nearly 20 years across 6 companies and only 1 I would say did a "5% every year" thing, and even that got paused for years at a time when market conditions pushed that way.

Even if your statement is true, it is a matter of framing. Obviously you keep your best staff, and fire the actively negatively contributing staff. The people in the middle aren't just "for when you need to sacrifice".. they are simply the middle 50%. You obviously want to see them improve as well.

Re: Do not try to be the smartest in the room; try to be the kindest

#116

Post by citizen_friend »

baazaa wrote: post #77

If we tallied up all technical projects in the Western world that failed, how many would be failing due to lack of kindness versus, say, straight-forwards incompetence? Because 100% fall in the latter category in my experience. One of the problems with engineers counter-signalling engineering values (like actual technical competence) is that we live in a world where those values are extremely underrated while every m…

Ive also seen cases where business people truly don’t believe there is an underlying reality to a problem. They evaluate approaches and people purely from a sociability stand point.

You make a good point about government, there are so many big problems including bad incentives about working hard, taking risks, etc, it’s hard for to see that as the main one.

Re: Do not try to be the smartest in the room; try to be the kindest

#117

Post by mirekrusin »

makeitdouble wrote: post #103
mirekrusin wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If this phrase can mean anything, it doesn't mean anything anymore. Ie. you could also say that egoism is being kind to yourself etc.

I see "being kind" as towards others in the context of this discussion. If I feel I'm doing a disservice to the person by not speaking up, but still stay silent because I don't want to be confrontational or harsh, I don't think I'm being kind to the person. I'm only protecting the relation or myself, as I don't have the tools or a path to convey helpful information while making clear I'm having the person's good in m…

I can also argue that "being smart" means I recognize feelings of others, because not doing it is stupid - so that implies kindness.

Re: Do not try to be the smartest in the room; try to be the kindest

#118

Post by BurningFrog »

baazaa wrote: post #77

If we tallied up all technical projects in the Western world that failed, how many would be failing due to lack of kindness versus, say, straight-forwards incompetence? Because 100% fall in the latter category in my experience. One of the problems with engineers counter-signalling engineering values (like actual technical competence) is that we live in a world where those values are extremely underrated while every m…

The biggest problem with government organizations is that they're monopolies.

The lack of competition means that (1) if the organization is dysfunctional, it won't be beaten by a better one, and (2) it has little incentive to improve.

Re: Do not try to be the smartest in the room; try to be the kindest

#119

Post by [deleted] »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #113
Kye wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is real. When the car broke down in a turn lane in the rain: lots of honking behind me When the hazard lights came on: honking stopped, people materialized to help push it back out of the road

I don’t understand the relevance of this example. Without the hazard light, there’s a 99% chance the person is simply looking at their phone, needlessly delaying everyone else, hence the honking to alert them to move. What else is another driver supposed to do? A hazard light means there is a problem that can’t be solved with honking.

[deleted]

Re: Do not try to be the smartest in the room; try to be the kindest

#120

Post by hooverd »

delichon wrote: post #95
codelikeawolf wrote: post #59

Ever since that back and forth about "East Coast being kind vs West Coast being nice" thing a while back[1], I think it's important to distinguish the two. Because they are noticeably different (at least to me) and shouldn't be used interchangeably. I want someone to be kind to me in a meeting. I think niceness could seriously inhibit progress. A kind person will tell me that an idea I have won't work, but they'll of…

"Tough love" is kind but not nice. There doesn't seem to be a good phrase for the opposite in English but there should be.

Unfortunately "though love" as practiced is mostly just an excuse to be an asshole.
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