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Do not try to be the smartest in the room; try to be the kindest

jorgegalindo.me

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Re: Do not try to be the smartest in the room; try to be the kindest

#101

Post by steveBK123 »

codelikeawolf wrote: post #59

Ever since that back and forth about "East Coast being kind vs West Coast being nice" thing a while back[1], I think it's important to distinguish the two. Because they are noticeably different (at least to me) and shouldn't be used interchangeably. I want someone to be kind to me in a meeting. I think niceness could seriously inhibit progress. A kind person will tell me that an idea I have won't work, but they'll of…

To summarize the idea in a work concept for those who won't read through -

East Coast "kind" would be to tell the person working for you about their performance issues early, in a constructive feedback manner such that they could course correct or find a role they are better suited for. The hope is they either improve in the role, find a new role internally, or decide to move on before having to stomach a firing.

West Coast nice would be to let the person working for you continue to perform poorly without feedback, being "nice" to them, but privately considering them incompetent. Eventually you will end up firing them without much warning when a cut actually has to be made. Think Amazon PIP.

Re: Do not try to be the smartest in the room; try to be the kindest

#102

Post by KolmogorovComp »

trxvaf wrote: post #86
KolmogorovComp wrote: post #80

These kind of over-generalist advice are pretty meaningless (especially the title, content being more specific). You do not always want to be perceived (because that's what you're going for) as kind, it is situation specific. You do not want to be kind during negotiation, because that means you're usually missing out on a better deal. You do not want to be kind when dealing with bad behaviour. I've too often seen mis…

A stair is an inanimate object that other people step upon in order to move upwards. Perhaps the human beings in question refused to participate in that game and therefore went "missing"? People using the term "missing stair" are very often sanctimonious, obsessed with power, and just do enough of faking kindness to fly under the radar. And they treat others like inanimate objects.

> People using the term "missing stair" are very often sanctimonious, obsessed with power, and just do enough of faking kindness to fly under the radar. And they treat others like inanimate objects.

That's a lot of assumption to make from the use of one illustrated idiom, that were by no means intended from my side.

Re: Do not try to be the smartest in the room; try to be the kindest

#103

Post by makeitdouble »

mirekrusin wrote: post #24
makeitdouble wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could say that hiding or refraining from giving critical feedback is not kindness.

If this phrase can mean anything, it doesn't mean anything anymore. Ie. you could also say that egoism is being kind to yourself etc.

I see "being kind" as towards others in the context of this discussion.

If I feel I'm doing a disservice to the person by not speaking up, but still stay silent because I don't want to be confrontational or harsh, I don't think I'm being kind to the person. I'm only protecting the relation or myself, as I don't have the tools or a path to convey helpful information while making clear I'm having the person's good in mind.

I see it as a failure in communication (it usually can be blamed on both parties), and clearly not a character quality.

Re: Do not try to be the smartest in the room; try to be the kindest

#105

Post by seneca »

delichon wrote: post #95
codelikeawolf wrote: post #59

Ever since that back and forth about "East Coast being kind vs West Coast being nice" thing a while back[1], I think it's important to distinguish the two. Because they are noticeably different (at least to me) and shouldn't be used interchangeably. I want someone to be kind to me in a meeting. I think niceness could seriously inhibit progress. A kind person will tell me that an idea I have won't work, but they'll of…

"Tough love" is kind but not nice. There doesn't seem to be a good phrase for the opposite in English but there should be.

The book Radical Candor calls the opposite "ruinous empathy".

Re: Do not try to be the smartest in the room; try to be the kindest

#106

Post by pcloadletter_ »

Some people here are confused. Kindness towards people doesn't preclude you from being assertive. It doesn't preclude you from being a shrewd negotiator. It doesn't preclude you from provide feedback to an employee who needs to improve performance. It doesn't preclude you from laying off an employee.

Re: Do not try to be the smartest in the room; try to be the kindest

#107

Post by bradly »

baazaa wrote: post #77

If we tallied up all technical projects in the Western world that failed, how many would be failing due to lack of kindness versus, say, straight-forwards incompetence? Because 100% fall in the latter category in my experience. One of the problems with engineers counter-signalling engineering values (like actual technical competence) is that we live in a world where those values are extremely underrated while every m…

> how many would be failing due to lack of kindness versus, say, straight-forwards incompetence?

Kindness and incompetence are orthogonal. You can be kind and still give honest, direct feedback. And your feedback will probably be received better because of your kindness.

Re: Do not try to be the smartest in the room; try to be the kindest

#108

Post by steveBK123 »

baazaa wrote: post #77

If we tallied up all technical projects in the Western world that failed, how many would be failing due to lack of kindness versus, say, straight-forwards incompetence? Because 100% fall in the latter category in my experience. One of the problems with engineers counter-signalling engineering values (like actual technical competence) is that we live in a world where those values are extremely underrated while every m…

Actually the most dysfunctional engineering orgs I've worked in had unkind hardos in charge who would yell & scream at people. More of it was because they were poorly emotionally regulated than because they were right in whatever they were yelling or screaming about.

Government projects stand apart because things like cost are balanced against the inherent jobs-creation objectives of funding them.

Kindness doesn't mean to let incompetent people sit in roles they are incapable of indefinitely. That's more "niceness", using all sorts of HR speak about family/win together/blah blah blah while waiting until the budget cuts come to surprise fire people who were never performing in their role.

Kindness is to give people feedback that helps them improve. It is sometimes a poorly socialized engineers impression that people simply do their jobs poorly on purpose. In reality it's a mix of skills and awareness. Eventually everyone gets put into a role they aren't truly capable of and either grows into it or moves on. Feedback helps that happen sooner rather than later.

Re: Do not try to be the smartest in the room; try to be the kindest

#109

Post by ricardo81 »

tpmoney wrote: post #73
ricardo81 wrote: post #39

Seems like good common sense. Listen, be respectful, keep an open mind. To be fair does it not depend on the audience. There's a balance between the audience and an idea you want to push. Here in YC you can probably go full on with your tech/science knowledge/ideas/theories/whatever and people will judge you purely on your points made, and the people listening are in the same boat. In another context you may be the s…

>Here in YC you can probably go full on with your tech/science knowledge/ideas/theories/whatever and people will judge you purely on your points made, and the people listening are in the same boat. I would disagree with this, even here it is important to be kind. Too often I find the comments on a given thread are full of self importance or worse disdain for the "shortcomings" of the topic in question. Whether or not…

I can't disagree with your philosophy and think you have a well considered approach to it.

When it comes to social etiquette, empathy, agreeableness, there are definitely a lot of people 'on the scale' around here and that's absolutely fine. There are smart well-balanced people and there's uber-smart people who know more than most about a thing but perhaps lack that social etiquette- and that's fine to me. If they can communicate their point, I don't mind so much their lack of grace on it.

Re: Do not try to be the smartest in the room; try to be the kindest

#110

Post by lotsofpulp »

steveBK123 wrote: post #101
codelikeawolf wrote: post #59

Ever since that back and forth about "East Coast being kind vs West Coast being nice" thing a while back[1], I think it's important to distinguish the two. Because they are noticeably different (at least to me) and shouldn't be used interchangeably. I want someone to be kind to me in a meeting. I think niceness could seriously inhibit progress. A kind person will tell me that an idea I have won't work, but they'll of…

To summarize the idea in a work concept for those who won't read through - East Coast "kind" would be to tell the person working for you about their performance issues early, in a constructive feedback manner such that they could course correct or find a role they are better suited for. The hope is they either improve in the role, find a new role internally, or decide to move on before having to stomach a firing. Wes…

>Eventually you will end up firing them without much warning when a cut actually has to be made. Think Amazon PIP.

I would bet managers on the east coast keep under performers around just to have people to cut also, doesn’t take a genius to figure out the strategy. You invest in people you think can improve and help you, you get rid of the ones that hurt you, and you keep the so so ones for when you need to sacrifice.

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