New U.S. immigration rules spur more visa approvals for STEM workers • Hacker News Board

Re: New U.S. immigration rules spur more visa approvals for STEM workers

#111

Post by lgleason » Thu, Dec 28, 2023, 3:57 PM UTC

edgyquant wrote: post #82

thenaturalist wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The economy is not a zero sum game. The US created literally all relevant consumer technology in the last 30 or so years and demand for tech talent has exploded ever since. Having a competitve sector/ economy which regularly pushes the edge of innovation and hence expands demand (both on sell and supply side) is actually what keeps salaries up. This logic is as deeply flawed as often as it comes up.

Yes it is. Every foreign employee getting that tech job is a US citizen from the Midwest not getting it. Fuck this dishonest talking point, I know people coding since high school working at Toyota plants while people from overseas with entry level skill sets have employers move them to the west coast and land jobs (for whatever reason.) It’s favoritism, it’s cronyism, it’s a nation putting its own struggling people l…

Exactly! The companies often prefer the people on H1B visas because the workers have to be much more subservient or risk being deported and they have leverage to pay them at the lower end of the salary range for the position/level.

Re: New U.S. immigration rules spur more visa approvals for STEM workers

#112

Post by aiisahik » Thu, Dec 28, 2023, 3:57 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #92

aiisahik wrote: post #80

I'm an Australian citizen who has lived in the US for over 20 years, gotten degrees from Yale and Berkeley. I've worked as a software engineer for over 10 years and am currently a cofounder. I'm so put off by the immigration process in the US that I have decided to leave the US permanently. Don't worry - i still work for the same US based company remotely from a more cost effective nation. I just don't pay your taxes…

That seems like a win-win. Hopefully remote work will reduce the need for immigration.

I hire a ton of engineers in LATAM who have no interest in migrating to US. They get paid well in USD, they live in kings and queens in their respective low cost countries. In fact, looking at their live inspired me to make the decision to leave.

Re: New U.S. immigration rules spur more visa approvals for STEM workers

#113

Post by ChumpGPT » Thu, Dec 28, 2023, 3:57 PM UTC

aiisahik wrote: post #106

ChumpGPT wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Oh the US has been amazing to me! I love the US! It gave me degrees (funded by American donors), it gave me work experience, it provided me with capital markets to raise $$ and build companies. I love it all. However, since the US doesn't really want me to be physically IN the US, I will simply continue loving the US from afar. I will maintain equity in US companies, I will take US capital and I will sell to US custo…

[flagged]

Re: New U.S. immigration rules spur more visa approvals for STEM workers

#114

Post by alephnerd » Thu, Dec 28, 2023, 3:57 PM UTC

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #95

ketzo wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Intuitively, yes; factually (looking at the last 30 years of tech), categorically false. Tech begets tech, tech jobs beget tech jobs. Personally, I think we are not remotely close to “peak software” in particular.

The reality of Canadian tech salaries would disagree with you. Our immigration system targets skilled workers from abroad, and brings in a lot of them. It's a far more "rational" and less confusing system than the US, but also explicitly geared around bringing in skilled workers as permanent residents and it brings in a lot of them. The downward pressure on compensation rates is real. Apart from exceptions in FAANG t…

The Canadian tech market is particularly small by most standards.

Tech salaries there are lower than what a skilled employee can get in Israel, China, or India.

Re: New U.S. immigration rules spur more visa approvals for STEM workers

#115

Post by drivebyhooting » Thu, Dec 28, 2023, 3:57 PM UTC

snakeyjake wrote: post #37

lgleason wrote: post #4

Expect further downward pressure on US tech salaries.

My employer cannot hire H1Bs. They are prohibited by law. All employees must be US citizens. They pay extremely competitive rates. They are the reason for and a source of complaints regarding gentrification in my area. edit: as an example the starting rate for high school work-study and college interns is the hourly equivalent of $78k/yr plus the same benefits as full-time employees from the second they show up. The…

What is staff level total compensation? In big tech you can make $1M/year with 8 years of experience.

Re: New U.S. immigration rules spur more visa approvals for STEM workers

#116

Post by dougmwne » Thu, Dec 28, 2023, 3:58 PM UTC

jupp0r wrote: post #55

dougmwne wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This affects very few immigrants of extraordinary ability. Such people are likely to be job creators with the companies and products they build. I agree that if we were to lift the cap on H-1b visas it could easily destroy tech salaries. Thankfully that’s not under consideration.

Most H1-B visas don't go to engineering roles. Expanding those quotas wouldn't affect engineering salaries, but probably IT support roles, etc.

If you open the door wide enough, salaries will drop. It’s an economic reality. It may be a very good thing for the wider economy and stock market though. Right now critical roles that enable high productivity work are behind a tall wall of a multi-100k salary. It’s possible that we are letting a small number of engineers get early retirements in exchange for a drag on the whole economy.

Re: New U.S. immigration rules spur more visa approvals for STEM workers

#117

Post by pavlov » Thu, Dec 28, 2023, 3:59 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #92

aiisahik wrote: post #80

I'm an Australian citizen who has lived in the US for over 20 years, gotten degrees from Yale and Berkeley. I've worked as a software engineer for over 10 years and am currently a cofounder. I'm so put off by the immigration process in the US that I have decided to leave the US permanently. Don't worry - i still work for the same US based company remotely from a more cost effective nation. I just don't pay your taxes…

That seems like a win-win. Hopefully remote work will reduce the need for immigration.

How is it a win for the United States if American companies are employing less people in the country, and instead are paying remote workers who pay taxes elsewhere?

Re: New U.S. immigration rules spur more visa approvals for STEM workers

#118

Post by light_hue_1 » Thu, Dec 28, 2023, 3:59 PM UTC

hibikir wrote: post #89

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #3

>“You don’t have any accomplishments,” the lawyer told him. “You don’t have a patent, or even a product.” That scolding spurred Sanjay to make a list of what he needed to do to achieve his goal of staying permanently. He improved the technology his AI-based firm was developing, expanded its customer base, and filed for a U.S. patent, which was awarded earlier this year. In May those efforts paid off, allowing him to…

I would be surprised if it didn't, as other parts of the immigration system also warp post graduate education. EB-2 provides a much easier immigration route than EB-3, and EB-1 is easier still: Arguably the only road you can call easy if you come from countries that hit the per-country cap. The most reliable way to EB-2 is post graduate education. For EB-1, as listed here, will be patents and publications after a Ph.…

> This isn't because most international students love academia: It's because the immigration system, as described earlier, just makes the piece of paper they hand you so much more valuable that it'd be for someone that is already a US citizen.

Nonsense. I've been at a typical STEM department at a top us institution for a decade and interacted with thousands of students. I can count the number of students who were in it for a visa. You don't do a 5-6 year PhD simply for a green card. There are easier ways.

Re: New U.S. immigration rules spur more visa approvals for STEM workers

#119

Post by aiisahik » Thu, Dec 28, 2023, 4:00 PM UTC

aiisahik wrote: post #106

ChumpGPT wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Oh the US has been amazing to me! I love the US! It gave me degrees (funded by American donors), it gave me work experience, it provided me with capital markets to raise $$ and build companies. I love it all. However, since the US doesn't really want me to be physically IN the US, I will simply continue loving the US from afar. I will maintain equity in US companies, I will take US capital and I will sell to US custo…

I'm no different from the many dozens of contractors we already pay who are located in other countries. The IRS does not require tax contributions from company or the contractor if the contractor's domicile is outside the US and does not meet the substantial presence test.

Don't worry I've done my research and consulted tax lawyers. It's all very much legal.

Re: New U.S. immigration rules spur more visa approvals for STEM workers

#120

Post by alephnerd » Thu, Dec 28, 2023, 4:00 PM UTC

jupp0r wrote: post #74

dougmwne wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But really, it’s much easier to enter the EU. You have dozens of countries with their own rules so there are many more options. Plus immigration rules tend to be much easier than the US with its famously strict legal immigration with low caps. Indeed, this balance between supply and demand is exactly what keeps US tech salaries high. Our dynamic economy creates a lot of tech roles while our restrictive immigration li…

And yet there is very little tech immigration into Europe, comparatively. Must be the low salaries.

You can earn European level tech salaries in Bangalore and Beijing now. There isn't as much demand to move there and uproot your family just for $30-50k a year.