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Marcel the Shell

marceltheshell.org

111–120 of 209 posts

Re: Marcel the Shell

#111

Hi, I’m the author of Marcel. If you like it and want to work on it, I can use volunteers, for developing features, debugging, doc, porting, improving the website, you name it.

Surely there is some copyright infringement here?

What's the other thing named Marcel?

Re: Marcel the Shell

#112
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In defense of the Microsoft-haters, powershell is a fantastic idea with terrible ergonomics. When they first released it I was very excited but, well, it’s just awful to use. Terrible Get-Finger-Twister -Recurse -Awfully commands, quirky aliases (you can type “curl” but it takes none of curl’s parameters because it’s an alias for Get-WebRequest-Annoyingly or whatever they called it), simple scripting things such as “…

Alias, code completion and nice IDE tooling is the trick, not being stuck in UNIX like CLI mentality.

That is the key. I will never understand why we’re stuck in a world of TeleType emulators, while having all the technology available to make Terminals with proper autocomplete, suggestions and inline widgets possible.

And we’re probably not getting there if people insist on cryptic shortcuts instead of semantic naming, just because they’re inclined to type everything out manually. It’s like those developers writing their code in Notepad++ and pretend that’s the way.

Re: Marcel the Shell

#114
To me the interest in this would be as a replacement for bash in makefiles with the hope that it could be cross platform and not require most of the utilities like sed/awk etc. It's an enormous pain to write x-platform builds with make because of shell issues - even with cygwin.

For this to work one would probably want to embed python and have a pool of interpreters so as not to pay the startup cost of python on every job invocation.

"That Said" I think passing around structures is not that useful to me - one is often trying to automate programs that are not written that way.

Python's pipe handling is complicated and horrible compared to bash and that's the thing I'd really want to "buy" from this - together with more shell-like ways to copy, search, touch files that are platform independent.

Re: Marcel the Shell

#115
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In defense of the Microsoft-haters, powershell is a fantastic idea with terrible ergonomics. When they first released it I was very excited but, well, it’s just awful to use. Terrible Get-Finger-Twister -Recurse -Awfully commands, quirky aliases (you can type “curl” but it takes none of curl’s parameters because it’s an alias for Get-WebRequest-Annoyingly or whatever they called it), simple scripting things such as “…

Alias, code completion and nice IDE tooling is the trick, not being stuck in UNIX like CLI mentality.

Needing an IDE for a shell!?

"Tooling" is a design smell. It's building hacks on hacks to make bad design and lack of understanding somewhat manageable.

For better systems all you need is a shell and a text editor.

That said, we do need a better shell. But definitely one with UNIX and CLI mentality.

Re: Marcel the Shell

#116
post #86

First of all - Linuxes and alike desperately need something like this shell becoming standard. And second - I always wonder how all these great minds who where throwing rubbish at Microsoft ever since... somehow forgot to mention that same company created important product called PowerShell like 20 years ago. And you know PowerShell is so good already you can easily drop it in any OS/X, Linux and it actually works. N…

sed and awk are simple tools; choosing an entirely different non-standard tool just because you can't learn them seems a bit overkill.

Re: Marcel the Shell

#117
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not a license connoiseur. Why does GPL present a problem? (Not trying to be conentious, it's a genuine question.)

GPLv3 is a "strong copyleft" license. It comes with some significant pros and cons compared to more permissive licenses like MIT and BSD. You can find more about the philosophy behind it here: https://www.gnu.org/philosophy As the author, a benefit it offers you is protection against someone selling your work or a derivative of it, or redistributing it with added restrictions. From a user's perspective, the main down…

GPL is about the freedom of the user.

Anti-copyleft is about taking these away. Sad how so many have eaten this corporate proaganda campaign.

https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.en.html

Re: Marcel the Shell

#118
post #86

First of all - Linuxes and alike desperately need something like this shell becoming standard. And second - I always wonder how all these great minds who where throwing rubbish at Microsoft ever since... somehow forgot to mention that same company created important product called PowerShell like 20 years ago. And you know PowerShell is so good already you can easily drop it in any OS/X, Linux and it actually works. N…

No.

Powershell structured pipe might look beautifully to architecture astronauts, but it is a step back.

The value of the component is the higher, the more components it can communicate with. Pure stream pipes in unices are the universal language; object pipes in powershell break the language in many incomprehensible fragments, and each component there needs "translator" for each specific fragment it can understand on input or output. Yes, it means that in the unix environment you may need some tool to be a middleman to extract only few things from the bigger stream; but these tools are also universal, unlike the need to understand specific piped object in the powershell world.

CORBA wasn't left "halfbaked". It was too complex for its own good, and unlike COM, there was nobody interested in pushing it further, so it was left behind. For a more lightweight messaging, there are XPC (macOS) or dbus (linux).

Re: Marcel the Shell

#120
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In defense of the Microsoft-haters, powershell is a fantastic idea with terrible ergonomics. When they first released it I was very excited but, well, it’s just awful to use. Terrible Get-Finger-Twister -Recurse -Awfully commands, quirky aliases (you can type “curl” but it takes none of curl’s parameters because it’s an alias for Get-WebRequest-Annoyingly or whatever they called it), simple scripting things such as “…

Alias, code completion and nice IDE tooling is the trick, not being stuck in UNIX like CLI mentality.

And yet, there's no code completion for powershell so nice, as fish provides. In this area, Powershell (plus addons, like oh-my-posh) just mimimcs existing popular bash/zsh capabalities.
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