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Marcel the Shell

marceltheshell.org

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101–110 of 209 posts

Re: Marcel the Shell

#101

Post by kunley »

larodi wrote: post #86

First of all - Linuxes and alike desperately need something like this shell becoming standard. And second - I always wonder how all these great minds who where throwing rubbish at Microsoft ever since... somehow forgot to mention that same company created important product called PowerShell like 20 years ago. And you know PowerShell is so good already you can easily drop it in any OS/X, Linux and it actually works. N…

Am I the only one who actually gave Poweshell a try and found it to be a nightmare?

Re: Marcel the Shell

#102

Post by pjmlp »

larodi wrote: post #86

First of all - Linuxes and alike desperately need something like this shell becoming standard. And second - I always wonder how all these great minds who where throwing rubbish at Microsoft ever since... somehow forgot to mention that same company created important product called PowerShell like 20 years ago. And you know PowerShell is so good already you can easily drop it in any OS/X, Linux and it actually works. N…

For all the praise it gets, PowerShell is basically the REPL environment from Xerox PARC (Smalltalk/Interlisp-D/Mesa/Cedar), ETHZ(Oberon), Lisp Machines, finally making into mainstream computing.

On OS/X you would need to look into Apple Scripting, XPC and Objective-C runtime, for a similar COM like experience, by the way.

Re: Marcel the Shell

#103

Post by js2 »

eviks wrote: post #98
js2 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I know that, but it's also exceedingly rare for a filename to contain a newline and using -exec is extremely inefficient. I also wrote that on my iPad. Typically I'd use a combination of -print0 and xargs -0 for anything more formal than a one-liner on the command line. The larger bug in my example is that it fails if any of the directories in the path contain a "." in their name!

[flagged]

It's one example. I didn't realize the mistake when I wrote it. I wrote my comment in good faith. What's with the interrogation?

Re: Marcel the Shell

#104

Post by pjmlp »

skrebbel wrote: post #94
larodi wrote: post #86

First of all - Linuxes and alike desperately need something like this shell becoming standard. And second - I always wonder how all these great minds who where throwing rubbish at Microsoft ever since... somehow forgot to mention that same company created important product called PowerShell like 20 years ago. And you know PowerShell is so good already you can easily drop it in any OS/X, Linux and it actually works. N…

In defense of the Microsoft-haters, powershell is a fantastic idea with terrible ergonomics. When they first released it I was very excited but, well, it’s just awful to use. Terrible Get-Finger-Twister -Recurse -Awfully commands, quirky aliases (you can type “curl” but it takes none of curl’s parameters because it’s an alias for Get-WebRequest-Annoyingly or whatever they called it), simple scripting things such as “…

Alias, code completion and nice IDE tooling is the trick, not being stuck in UNIX like CLI mentality.

Re: Marcel the Shell

#105

Post by bayesianbot »

eviks wrote: post #99
larodi wrote: post #86

First of all - Linuxes and alike desperately need something like this shell becoming standard. And second - I always wonder how all these great minds who where throwing rubbish at Microsoft ever since... somehow forgot to mention that same company created important product called PowerShell like 20 years ago. And you know PowerShell is so good already you can easily drop it in any OS/X, Linux and it actually works. N…

You're right on the text vs structure point, but then pwsh is unfortunately slow and unergonomic enough that makes the transition from a better modern shell (so, not bash) harder, especially with a better and more common language like python

Have to agree with the slowness, I just used powershell for a month or two and thought it's great.. Until one day I accidentally started fish and it felt so blazingly fast that I couldn't go back to pwsh anymore..

Re: Marcel the Shell

#106

Post by Maken »

anticrymactic wrote: post #96
skrebbel wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In defense of the Microsoft-haters, powershell is a fantastic idea with terrible ergonomics. When they first released it I was very excited but, well, it’s just awful to use. Terrible Get-Finger-Twister -Recurse -Awfully commands, quirky aliases (you can type “curl” but it takes none of curl’s parameters because it’s an alias for Get-WebRequest-Annoyingly or whatever they called it), simple scripting things such as “…

While I tend to agree, a lot of commands also have pretty good aliases. For example `iwr` for Invoke-Web-Request. Also the full names are only expected to be used in scripts to maintain readability. No one types that in the console. Also ALL Parameters can be abbreviated if they are unique. If no other Parameter starts with R then -R is enough for -Recurse. (there are some quirks with this, but generally pretty intui…

>Also ALL Parameters can be abbreviated if they are unique. If no other Parameter starts with R then -R is enough for -Recurse. (there are some quirks with this, but generally pretty intuitive)

So, adding a new parameter starting with R to any command is a breaking change that will crash every script using it? Sounds like a terrible idea.

Re: Marcel the Shell

#107

Post by achenet »

abnry wrote: post #5

How does this compare to nushell? I am in the market to learn something other than bash and right now nushell seems like the best candidate.

I've been using fish for a while myself, and I absolutely love it. The autocomplete is magic.

Re: Marcel the Shell

#108

Post by Pet_Ant »

Maken wrote: post #106
anticrymactic wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I tend to agree, a lot of commands also have pretty good aliases. For example `iwr` for Invoke-Web-Request. Also the full names are only expected to be used in scripts to maintain readability. No one types that in the console. Also ALL Parameters can be abbreviated if they are unique. If no other Parameter starts with R then -R is enough for -Recurse. (there are some quirks with this, but generally pretty intui…

>Also ALL Parameters can be abbreviated if they are unique. If no other Parameter starts with R then -R is enough for -Recurse. (there are some quirks with this, but generally pretty intuitive) So, adding a new parameter starting with R to any command is a breaking change that will crash every script using it? Sounds like a terrible idea.

> So, adding a new parameter starting with R to any command is a breaking change that will crash every script using it?

In a script, write it out in full. When manually typing it’s okay to take shortcuts. There is always a tension between ergonomics and safety.

Re: Marcel the Shell

#110

Post by kampanosg »

geophile wrote: post #40

Hi, I’m the author of Marcel. If you like it and want to work on it, I can use volunteers, for developing features, debugging, doc, porting, improving the website, you name it.

Hi! Happy to help/contribute if you need an extra pair of hands :)
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