Cockpit: Web-based graphical interface for servers • Hacker News Board

Re: Cockpit: Web-based graphical interface for servers

#111

Post by yabones » Mon, Oct 16, 2023, 1:27 PM UTC

dale_glass wrote: post #98

smetj wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Certainly for SSH I find this a bad idea. If you need to ssh into a troubled machine then it might very well be it cannot be started.

If it's so troubled that a process won't start, it's probably time to reach for the IPMI console. Even if ssh is still running, if the system is that broken, is bash going to start, or what tools you might need?

I've rescued pretty messed up systems before. In one case, a service went haywire and created tens of millions of might be okay, but it does make me a bit antsy.

Re: Cockpit: Web-based graphical interface for servers

#112

Post by HankB99 » Mon, Oct 16, 2023, 1:29 PM UTC

jameshart wrote: post #107

People who decry graphical admin interfaces in favor of command line are missing the wood for the trees. Sure, clickops is no way to run a server - but neither, if we’re honest, is ssh. For a working machine, server state should be reproducible from scratch. Install an OS, add software, apply configuration, leave well alone. If you’re going in with ssh or cockpit you’re just going to screw something up. So the only r…

> For a working machine, server state should be reproducible from scratch. Install an OS, add software, apply configuration, leave well alone.

I'm curious if you have a specific tool or tools in mind. I've been using Ansible in my home lab, particularly for configuring Raspberry Pis. The OS install part (only?) works because it involves a bitwise copy of the image to the boot media (and some optional configuration.)

Re: Cockpit: Web-based graphical interface for servers

#113

Post by whalesalad » Mon, Oct 16, 2023, 1:33 PM UTC

This is the natural evolution of Webmin. I've used it for a few things. Nice to have in my homelab for quickly glancing at what a box is doing, software packages etc.

Re: Cockpit: Web-based graphical interface for servers

#114

Post by dig1 » Mon, Oct 16, 2023, 1:36 PM UTC

minimaul wrote: post #56

dig1 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd say it is half-baked webmin. You can only use it with NetworkManager, and if you have an even remotely complex network setup for VMs, NetworkManager usually must be turned off, which makes Cockpit practically unusable. virt-manager [1] is way more powerful for those who like managing VMs with GUI. [1] https://virt-manager.org/

I've not noticed any dependencies on NetworkManager when using Cockpit for VMs on Debian? My servers configure their networking using Debian's usual ifupdown, and NetworkManager isn't even installed!

What Cockpit version? Maybe it is compiled differently on RH-based distros.

Re: Cockpit: Web-based graphical interface for servers

#115

Post by jameshart » Mon, Oct 16, 2023, 1:40 PM UTC

HankB99 wrote: post #112

jameshart wrote: post #107

People who decry graphical admin interfaces in favor of command line are missing the wood for the trees. Sure, clickops is no way to run a server - but neither, if we’re honest, is ssh. For a working machine, server state should be reproducible from scratch. Install an OS, add software, apply configuration, leave well alone. If you’re going in with ssh or cockpit you’re just going to screw something up. So the only r…

> For a working machine, server state should be reproducible from scratch. Install an OS, add software, apply configuration, leave well alone. I'm curious if you have a specific tool or tools in mind. I've been using Ansible in my home lab, particularly for configuring Raspberry Pis. The OS install part (only?) works because it involves a bitwise copy of the image to the boot media (and some optional configuration.)

Ansible is a good choice.

When I say ‘working server’ though, I typically mean one that is doing a job - providing a critical business service.

A ‘home lab’ of raspberry pis is a different beast.

Re: Cockpit: Web-based graphical interface for servers

#116

Post by talent_deprived » Mon, Oct 16, 2023, 1:50 PM UTC

TwoNineFive wrote: post #40

I'm an actual RHCE. This thread has to be some big Red Hatter click farm or something. The artificial positivity is striking. Is Red Hat threatening to pull funding for this project or something? Just weird. Cockpit is okay but it's basically Red Hat's equivalent to the Windows Server Manager tool, and I have no doubt it was directly inspired by Server Manager. It's development and improvement over the years has been…

Agree, all of it, like the term Red Hatter. This cockpit-project thing came up on Reddit yesterday as well. It feels like the podman astroturfing that was so strong last year. It also feels like Red Hat hired some of Jetbrains' hyper PR astroturfers who troll the Java and webdev forums on various sites, extolling the extreme virtues of all Jetbrains' products.

Re: Cockpit: Web-based graphical interface for servers

#117

Post by Scene_Cast2 » Mon, Oct 16, 2023, 1:52 PM UTC

sherry-sherry wrote: post #32

Scene_Cast2 wrote: post #2

For self hosting a NAS, I find Cockpit to be leagues better than OMV.

Can I ask why? I currently use OMV for serving files over my local network (just for myself) and running a handful of Docker containers. It works fine but I don't use 90% of it's features.

Two reasons. One is the paradigm, the other is jank (or lack thereof).

OMV takes over your system - lots of "Auto-generated and maintained by OMV, do not touch" in system configs. By comparison, with Cockpit I could tweak and set up my own stuff. With OMV, when I needed to change my network settings, I had to fight bugs in the OMV GUI, and couldn't edit the configs directly. Same thing when I was trying to set up my disks in a particular way. This is a big issue because when something breaks, none of the general (non-OMV specific) answers on the forums help because you can't actually edit the configs...

The other is jank. I ran into many, many issues with OMV. Even for installing, I had to resort to 'curl .. | sudo bash' as the officially recommended option, with no proper uninstall method.

Re: Cockpit: Web-based graphical interface for servers

#118

Post by shortrounddev2 » Mon, Oct 16, 2023, 1:56 PM UTC

distcs wrote: post #86

shortrounddev2 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if they CAN do a bash for/while loop, but they prefer not to because bash is the ugliest effing language they've ever seen

That is totally fine. I was talking about people who CANNOT do a bash for/while loop. You are talking about people who CAN do a bash for/while loop but choose not to. We are talking about different types of people. I am comfortable with the latter type of people administrating my servers. I am not comfortable about the former. Anyway, what has that got to do with my point though that sharing pictures on social media…

> I am comfortable with the latter type of people administrating my servers. I am not comfortable about the former.

idk what kind of legacy orgs people in this thread work for where there are Linux sysadmins working for their companies which directly manage server configs and security settings. "Administering my servers" is an interesting phrase in 2023, because there often aren't any servers to directly administer (even a VPS is hard to find). The last few companies I worked for all used some kind of virtualized infrastructure and usually through some kind of declarative interface (Docker, Kubernetes, or some terraform-style tool). Certainly, the people who OWN the servers have sysadmins managing these things, but such things are an abstraction these days, where many organizations don't have to deal with CLI configuration and bash, and just leave infrastructure to devops or even the developers themselves

Re: Cockpit: Web-based graphical interface for servers

#119

Post by talent_deprived » Mon, Oct 16, 2023, 1:57 PM UTC

shortrounddev2 wrote: post #78

distcs wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no problem viewing pictures shared by those who don't understand basic color blending and just want to swipe. But I may have a problem with people who can't do a bash for/while loop or understand pipe chaining commands be responsible for administrating my company servers. I don't see how the comparison between adminstrating servers and sharing pictures on social media is a useful comparison.

What if they CAN do a bash for/while loop, but they prefer not to because bash is the ugliest effing language they've ever seen

Actually powercrap is far uglier than Bash, for real.

Re: Cockpit: Web-based graphical interface for servers

#120

Post by winter_blue » Mon, Oct 16, 2023, 1:59 PM UTC

barosl wrote: post #36

The cool thing about this project is that as it uses systemd's socket activation, it requires no server processes at all. There is no waste of resources when Cockpit is not being used. Accessing a page is literally the same as invoking a command-line tool (and quitting it). No more, no less. What a beautiful design.

Just want to clarify: there's still a server process running to serve the Cockpit web app's static HTML/JS assets, right?

Do you essentially mean that systemd socket activation is used basically only if/when the Cockpit web app end-user/client sends a REST/GQL/etc/? request for logs, for example?