I think what we most have to be concerned about is when FBI agents LARP as violent extremists in order to entrap some hapless boob so they can meet their terrorist arrest quotas.
LARPing and Violent Extremism
111–120 of 230 posts
Re: LARPing and Violent Extremism
#112The most common form of LARPing I can think of is Civil War reenactments in Virginia
As someone who lived in Northern Virginia for a bit and knew some reenactors, I heard some interesting stories about how many issues it caused during the DC Sniper attacks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D.C._sniper_attacks. Lotsa 911 calls when they would start firing, it took a while for them to be able to ease back into it.
Tangential, but still an interesting intersection of law enforcement vs free expression. Thankfully I think that all parties just politely agreed they should just stop while the suspects were still active and at large.
Re: LARPing and Violent Extremism
#113Earlier quoted context omitted.
Because they need to provide a reference for when FBI agents in the future have to decide of someone is harmless or not. While this is available publicly, the audience is mostly law enforcement officers and possibly prosecutors. Many law enforcement officers have no familiarity with fantasy hobbies or war reenactment. Pointing out that LARPers use fake weapons and operate in the open is a good thing to point out. It’…
> Pointing out that LARPers use fake weapons and operate in the open is a good thing to point out So you think it is fine to investigate people who play around on their private property for terrorism just because they don't want you watching? To me that seems very scary and oppressive.
No, I think it’s good to know the difference between LARPers and terrorists so that the FBI doesn’t harass innocent people. It would suck if they were wasting their time spying on a LARP group because they thought they were actually committing violent acts.
Re: LARPing and Violent Extremism
#114Earlier quoted context omitted.
You're looking at this from an assumption-of-LARPing. Imagine an FBI agent looking at evidence of Timothy McVeigh at a gun show in 1994. He's selling a flare gun he claims can 'shoot down an ATF helicopter' and ATF hats with bullet holes in them. When interviewed without charge, imagine McVeigh claims that it's part of his LARPing activities. What standards would you suggest that agent applies, in order to avoid a fa…
> assumption-of-LARPing. And this seems accurate as the ratio of larping to terrorism is probably millions to one. Thousands of people larp every day in the US. Terrorism is fairly rare with maybe a few events per year.
I think this might expose (again) the wrong-headed assumptions of law-enforcement for how common terrorism is. It’s rare, but in order to justify the military-industrial investment behind it, we need to be told that we are under constant threat. That terrorism is everywhere, always.
Re: LARPing and Violent Extremism
#115Earlier quoted context omitted.
To add a counterpoint, that specific example is really a poor choice to get the point across. It’s been established ( https://www.insider.com/kidnapping-conspiracy-whitmer-fbi-in... ) that the Whitmer plot was run by the FBI itself, in a way having agents LARPing as terrorists. Also, I would hope the real LARPing community can feel safe enough to share tips on what to do if they run into police while running around t…
Nothing has been "established" except that a number of those involved got convicted. It's silly to think the FBI can force people to commit crimes they had no desire to commit.
Blackmail, lying, misinformation, manipulation, and gaslighting: the tools of an undercover FBI agent.
Re: LARPing and Violent Extremism
#116"Role players will not discuss law enforcement concerns on social media or provide guidance to each other if confronted by an officer. Also, they will have no demonstrated interest in criminal cases involving claims of LARP." Your resistance proves your guilt. Insisting on your fourth and fifth amendment rights? Noting other cases where innocent hobbyists were threatened and trying to avoid the same? Seems like viole…
Oh come on… it’s a hueristic, like anything else.
I have a heuristic that guidance that amounts to "assertion of rights is a sign of guilt" is presumptively invalid.
Re: LARPing and Violent Extremism
#117Earlier quoted context omitted.
It isn't just courts, these are for police officers in general, they say it near the top "which may be helpful to both law enforcement and prosecutors if suspects of targeted violence claim they were playacting". These standards will likely make officers go after more genuine LARPers than before. These tips are very problematic if police officers start to follow them, for example: > Role players will not discuss law…
> These standards will likely make officers go after more genuine LARPers than before. These tips are very problematic if police officers start to follow them. It sounds like it might be a dangerous time to LARP about and plan terrorist acts. That could be very problematic for those who enjoy that as a recreational hobby. But in some ways there's a precedent for it with flying. Lots of people used to love to LARP abo…
> Lots of people used to love to LARP about taking a bomb on a plane
Really?
Re: LARPing and Violent Extremism
#118Earlier quoted context omitted.
Oh come on… it’s a hueristic, like anything else.
I have a heuristic that guidance that amounts to "assertion of rights is a sign of guilt" is presumptively invalid.
You understand the difference between correlations and causations, right? Because that’s what this boils down to.
Re: LARPing and Violent Extremism
#119Earlier quoted context omitted.
I agree with the top post that the title confused me. But reading the article I came away with a very different take than you. This person is trying to define the difference between LARPing and being terrorist. That may be obvious to someone who knows LARPers, but not everyone does. I really don't think that the police are going to be a problem for people in fantasy gear, cosplaying, or re-enacting a historical battl…
> But LARPing shouldn't be an excuse for people who want to don real tactical gear and weapons and plan mayhem. Just saw a video talking a bit facetiously about this. The question is, "What's the difference between Paintball and LARPing?" Dressing up and using made-up names and speaking specialized terminology and engaging in make-believe combat... They decided there is no difference. (This could just as easily be ai…
I'd say paintball is like fencing. The actions are real, but the consequences are minimized by the equipment.
I don't know much about LARPing but I have the impression that the actions there aren't real, just people saying things like "I strike at thee", "I parry and riposte" while pantomiming in slow motion.
Wouldn't it be easy to tell a fencing duel from a LARP swordfight?
Re: LARPing and Violent Extremism
#120"Role players will not discuss law enforcement concerns on social media or provide guidance to each other if confronted by an officer. Also, they will have no demonstrated interest in criminal cases involving claims of LARP." Your resistance proves your guilt. Insisting on your fourth and fifth amendment rights? Noting other cases where innocent hobbyists were threatened and trying to avoid the same? Seems like viole…
I didn't interpret it that way at all. I interpreted it as having familiarity with cases of actual terrorists using a defense of claimed LARPing suggests you researched this to make up a cover story.