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LARPing and Violent Extremism

leb.fbi.gov

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Re: LARPing and Violent Extremism

#21

Post by jeffbee »

Jensson wrote: post #19
jeffbee wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"""The Bulletin provides a forum for information exchange throughout the criminal justice community. Readers consist mostly of midlevel to executive managers in agencies of various sizes worldwide."""

And those will now think that LARPers who want privacy are terrorists? I don't see how this is a good way to separate LARPing from terrorism. It is scary to think that law enforcement thinks that people who want privacy are terrorists.

This article is about how to test the genuineness of claims of LARPing by people suspected of attempting to overthrow governments. If you don't have the precondition of armed bandits circling your seat of government, then the article is of no relevance.

Re: LARPing and Violent Extremism

#23

Post by dnd_was_evil »

Remember when DnD was the cover for a nation wide cult that murdered children by the dozen?

Congratulations you're as out of touch as our parents were.

>Individuals can engage in such activity informally or as part of an organized group. Presumably, the earliest formal LARP group was Dagorhir Battle Games, founded in the United States in 1977.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1913_Gettysburg_reunion

Now if only these experts could use google leaping for 30 seconds before writing an add for their consultancy services.

>Ms. Amman is a retired FBI supervisory special agent, certified threat manager, and private threat assessment management consultant in West Des Moines, Iowa. Dr. Phil Saragoza

>Dr. Saragoza is a forensic psychiatrist, adjunct clinical assistant professor at the University of Michigan, and threat assessment consultant in Ann Arbor, Michigan.

Re: LARPing and Violent Extremism

#24

Post by crazygringo »

I was definitely confused by this article at first, thinking it was some silly guide for law enforcement which can't tell the difference between criminals and LARPers...??

But no -- it's actually about terrorists and criminals trying to claim in court that their criminal planning wasn't that at all, but just LARPing:

> For example, after Kaleb Franks was arrested in October 2020 for plotting to abduct Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer, he told the FBI he and his compatriots were only LARPing. Franks later pled guilty and testified that this was a lie.

So this document is for investigators to ensure they have a specific framework for being able to collect the appropriate evidence to use in court that prevents a defendent from using a LARPing defense.

Which actually makes a tremendous amount of sense. When armed militia members claim all of their organizing/preparation is just recreational, and totally unlinked to violence that members do eventually commit, it's important to have delineated standards to be able to refute that.

Re: LARPing and Violent Extremism

#25

Post by YeBanKo »

It is very scary to read such an "opinion" pieces on fbi.gov domain. First, they make it possible to connect any organized activity to "violent extremism".

And then this:

> Meetings may entail impassioned rhetoric and rehearsal of tactical operations for the ultimate future apocalypse when citizens will overtake the government or institute their own community policing.

This quote is fucking insane, imo. "citizens will overtake the government" – aren't citizens already supposed to be in charge of the government? A very strange choice of words. What about all that "We the People" stuff. And second, "or institute their own community policing" - it is how the policing in the US works. Local police forces account for the majority of police force in the US according to National Sources of Law Enforcement Employment Data [1].

[1] https://bjs.ojp.gov/content/pub/pdf/nsleed.pdf

Re: LARPing and Violent Extremism

#26

Post by Mountain_Skies »

pstuart wrote: post #12

I get the appeal and why it's happening, but FFS, this is a huge threat to the United States (and other countries), and it seems to be growing day by day. It's easy to dismiss ("it's just LARPing with real guns, dude") but we need to address it head on. Because this is deeply intertwined with "politics" it becomes radioactive to discuss in polite society (e.g., HN itself), but we'd be well served to find a way to hav…

Does it seem to be growing and is a huge threat in numeric comparison to other negative outcomes because the quantity is actually rapidly increasing or because the media and government are beating a drum about this issue louder than about other issues, regardless of quantitative changes in risk and absolute risk?

Re: LARPing and Violent Extremism

#27

Post by parsimo2010 »

Jensson wrote: post #6

> The foremost distinction between LARPers and violent extremists is that genuine role players will not care whether others are watching. They may even embrace third-party observation, such as nonplayer characters or a general audience. After all, LARP is a performance. > Conversely, violent extremists or terrorists want secrecy. This desire may contribute to the sense of clandestine excitement that surrounds them an…

Because they need to provide a reference for when FBI agents in the future have to decide of someone is harmless or not. While this is available publicly, the audience is mostly law enforcement officers and possibly prosecutors. Many law enforcement officers have no familiarity with fantasy hobbies or war reenactment. Pointing out that LARPers use fake weapons and operate in the open is a good thing to point out. It’s not obvious to everyone.

Re: LARPing and Violent Extremism

#28

Post by [deleted] »

jeffbee wrote: post #21
Jensson wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And those will now think that LARPers who want privacy are terrorists? I don't see how this is a good way to separate LARPing from terrorism. It is scary to think that law enforcement thinks that people who want privacy are terrorists.

This article is about how to test the genuineness of claims of LARPing by people suspected of attempting to overthrow governments. If you don't have the precondition of armed bandits circling your seat of government, then the article is of no relevance.

[deleted]

Re: LARPing and Violent Extremism

#29

Post by woodruffw »

dnd_was_evil wrote: post #23

Remember when DnD was the cover for a nation wide cult that murdered children by the dozen? Congratulations you're as out of touch as our parents were. >Individuals can engage in such activity informally or as part of an organized group. Presumably, the earliest formal LARP group was Dagorhir Battle Games, founded in the United States in 1977. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1913_Gettysburg_reunion Now if only these…

I think it's worth reading the linked page more closely: the distinction scheme it describes appears to be designed to handle the exact problem you've identified.

(That's not to say that it's good, or that the FBI will apply it effectively or correctly, only that it isn't as simple as "the FBI believes in the DnD cult conspiracy.")

Re: LARPing and Violent Extremism

#30

Post by HideousKojima »

Tao3300 wrote: post #20
kr0bat wrote: post #10

They used the term LARP a lot more literally than I expected. Although the history of LARP as a legal defense is narrow, the authors share the concern that it may soon become commonplace. Early attempts at such a strategy have been made by a defendant acting alone or in loose cooperation with members of a fantasy group who knew each other only in the virtual world, claiming “artistic expression” to excuse threatening…

> users pretend to have fantasies about taking officer's service weapon. Why is this a trend...

Funnier is how many of these people don't seem to understand how retention holsters work.
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