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Networking for introverts

economist.com

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Re: Networking for introverts

#111

Post by Tycho »

basscomm wrote: post #100
Tycho wrote: post #11

I think extroversion and introversion are just orthogonal skill sets. The solution can simply be “get better at extroversion.” For instance, small talk. You may style yourself as someone too intellectual to be entertained by small talk, and profess to be terrible at making small talk. This is to misunderstand the value proposition of small talk, which is to establish trust and rapport with strangers before you commit…

> I think extroversion and introversion are just orthogonal skill sets. The solution can simply be “get better at extroversion.” No. Introversion and extroversion aren't skills, they're things that you are. You might as well say that the solution to being short is to just 'get better at being tall'. It doesn't work that way. Introversion is not shyness. Introversion is not social anxiety. Introversion means that you…

“Energy”, “mental batteries” - these are entirely made up concepts.

Any sort of activity is tiring - it is especially tiring if you aren’t very good at it, if you have to make a conscious effort rather than being so competent that it’s “second nature.”

Re: Networking for introverts

#112

Post by bartread »

cvwright wrote: post #102
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It reminds me of Facebook's experiments where they tweaked people's feeds to alter their moods - sometimes for the worse.

Trying to find people more job opportunities is very different from trying to make people depressed.

> Trying to find people more job opportunities is very different from trying to make people depressed.

Yeah, but having suffered with depression myself, having had a friend with depression commit suicide, and having seen my dad's life utterly ruined by it, I'll take LinkedIn fucking around with potential job opportunities every day of the week and twice on Sundays. And, to be absolutely clear: no, I am not joking. Facebook manipulating peoples' mood and thinking is a far worse and more pernicious problem. A person's career is serious business, but it's not the most serious business.

Re: Networking for introverts

#113

Post by yread »

janekm wrote: post #29
yread wrote: post #8

What is this article even about? And what does this even mean: >In the offline world, a tool like Chatgpt should make it easier to find useful prospects in a list of event attendees. So, should you feed a list of conference attendees to chatgpt and ask who to talk to? And how? I personally go to conferences quite often, I'm terrible at networking but force myself to talk to people and I do have some results but I can…

I think the idea is "figure out a list of people who appear to have shared interests whom you might enjoy talking to", but the chatgpt reference does appear odd indeed

Oh yeah that sounds like a nice idea. Good luck trying to find them among 5000 delegates based on an outdated linkedin photo if they don't respond to your connect request though.

Re: Networking for introverts

#114

Post by chefandy »

logarhythmic wrote: post #108
chefandy wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First, I'd draw a sharp distinction between social skills and extroversion. Even if you're not compelled to interact with people and guard the energy you expend on socializing, that doesn't mean you aren't good at it. Some of the most charming people I've met have been serious introverts. I hate grinding through DS&A stuff and will avoid doing so at all costs, but I can still do it. Just like some developers have to…

Did you ever ask how they acquired those social skills if it didn't come naturally to them?

It's a performance just like any other, so just like any other self-taught performer learns their art-- some combination of training, research, practice, and seeking critique. I've known a handful of people that found their local Toastmasters International clubs to be a great start. I've known about as many people who dramatically improved their off-the-cuff social fluidity by taking improv comedy classes-- which is pretty admirable but I think I'd rather repeatedly whack myself in the kneecap with a ball peen hammer than take an improv comedy class. (though maybe that means I should take one? I dunno.)

Re: Networking for introverts

#115

Post by azan_ »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #73
SanderNL wrote: post #58

Don't want to awaken any sleeping dogs here, but what the author describes reminds me more of social anxiety and/or self-esteem issues than introversion. I'm an introvert. I can sit still and not speak to anyone for weeks and be fine. Happier even. Having no-one around recharges me like nothing else. The reverse is true as well which makes me incredibly popular at parties /s. When I was young(er), a networking event…

This for sure; it's a kind of anxiety that can be alleviated with self-confidence and exposure over time, or in other words, practice. Loads of people have trouble with small talk because they don't know how it works, but it can be learned and practiced.

How to learn it?

Re: Networking for introverts

#116

Post by basscomm »

Tycho wrote: post #111
basscomm wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think extroversion and introversion are just orthogonal skill sets. The solution can simply be “get better at extroversion.” No. Introversion and extroversion aren't skills, they're things that you are. You might as well say that the solution to being short is to just 'get better at being tall'. It doesn't work that way. Introversion is not shyness. Introversion is not social anxiety. Introversion means that you…

“Energy”, “mental batteries” - these are entirely made up concepts. Any sort of activity is tiring - it is especially tiring if you aren’t very good at it, if you have to make a conscious effort rather than being so competent that it’s “second nature.”

> “Energy”, “mental batteries” - these are entirely made up concepts.

Close. They're abstractions that I used to describe my experiences. I used them because I'm not trained in psychology and the analogies are close enough.

> Any sort of activity is tiring - it is especially tiring if you aren’t very good at it, if you have to make a conscious effort rather than being so competent that it’s “second nature.”

Correct. That has nothing to do with introversion, however. Being socially awkward doesn't (necessarily) mean that you're introverted.

Introversion isn't something that can be changed with practice. Introversion can't be changed at all. Extroverts usually don't believe this.

Note: I'm not using words 'improved' or 'overcome' here. Those words would imply that introversion is a problem that needs fixing or mitigating. It is not. It's a part of the rich tapestry of human existence.

Re: Networking for introverts

#117

Post by blindhippo »

psunavy03 wrote: post #99
blindhippo wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what I tend to believe (as a very high scoring introvert on various types of tests). Introversion in a physiological sense is high sensitivity to external stimulation. Fill up the bar too fast, it can cause an anxiety response. Some people then struggle with dealing with overstimulation, leading to anxiety disorders and a learned aversion to high stimulation situations/environments which often social situatio…

I'm no psych, but this sounds more like a description of the autism spectrum than introversion.

It very much is not what autism is. At a superficial level you can describe some of the characteristics this way, but autism is vastly more complicated then a simple sensitivity to stimuli.

Re: Networking for introverts

#118

Post by SanderNL »

alocasia-1 wrote: post #78
SanderNL wrote: post #58

Don't want to awaken any sleeping dogs here, but what the author describes reminds me more of social anxiety and/or self-esteem issues than introversion. I'm an introvert. I can sit still and not speak to anyone for weeks and be fine. Happier even. Having no-one around recharges me like nothing else. The reverse is true as well which makes me incredibly popular at parties /s. When I was young(er), a networking event…

I have a very similar experience. However I gently disagree with the language of introversion getting "worse". To me it's not a negative at all. In lockdowns in 2020 as an extreme example, it showed up as a major strength, a resilience to the loneliness that my extrovert friends struggled badly with.

Oh, I didn’t mean it like that. I meant it “increased”. You are right. I agree, it’s nothing negative and it can be a superpower.

The lockdowns - while societally a major disaster - where something of a personal net positive for me (which I cannot talk about because folks become angry with me).

Re: Networking for introverts

#119

Post by fouc »

PartiallyTyped wrote: post #35
badtension wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not an expert in modern NLP SOTA but from what I see these models do not work that well. You didn't summarize the article but took some of the most important points and shared what really mattered. It may not be perfect but required a real life experience. I am afraid there will always be a chance of getting "techno-babble" from our models, at least until they we get to some sort of AGI. Look at your first line:…

There are two things to that answer; first, a summary: > Most of the article appears to be about what does not work. and then a segmentation, where they list the content. This is very much in line with LLMs can do. Segmentation is part of a standard QA benchmark, and summaries are obviously something we have. You can also ask a model to not only identify a summary, but segment only the relevant parts given the summar…

I asked chatgpt to pick the most important 2 or 3 lines of text from the article. It returned:

    1. "Fortunately, there is advice out there on how to break the ice with strangers. Unfortunately, it’s abysmal."
    2. "Making contacts on a site like LinkedIn is a lot less stressful."
    3. "The real secret is to save your energy for the people who are most likely to be interesting to you."
It got 2 out of 3 wrong basically. I'm not sure how to objectively measure/improve that in an automated way. I suppose some prompt might do better though?

I guess a second pass of the results through another LLM could potentially help like you suggest?

Re: Networking for introverts

#120

Post by hungryforcodes »

Tycho wrote: post #110
hungryforcodes wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No this has nothing to do with introversion. It has nothing to do with social skills or confidence. Most introverts are actually quite charming one on one. For introverts social contact is simply EXHAUSTING. So there is a high cost to every social interaction. Hence why they avoid parties, or responding to your messages or any of the other things that extorverts seem to think are so "fun". I wish extroverts would und…

Yes, I am aware of the pop psychology ideas. I just don’t see why I should believe them. Doing things that you aren’t good at, that you haven’t effectively practiced, is tiring. If you aren’t an experienced driver, for instance, a lengthy, unfamiliar journey will feel exhausting. Once you get good, it’s second nature, and you don’t bat an eyelid. It’s pretty simple. You don’t need to invent this concept about special…

Introverts are generally analytical and try to take in everything and understand it. Extroverts not so much, they just kind of often do this stream of consciousness thing.

So introverts don't really get tired because they lack social skills and are trying -- but because that it takes alot of mental effort to continuously integrate all this new information.

If what you were saying is true then introverts would be less introverted over time as they practiced social skills but the opposite is often true.

Also if people tell you they are "tired" by social contact -- there isn't much you can do about it. Whether you believe it or not makes absolutely no difference to introverts. :)

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