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Austrian leader proposes enshrining the use of cash in country's constitution

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Re: Austrian leader proposes enshrining the use of cash in country's constitution

#111

Post by klntsky »

cvccvroomvroom wrote: post #88
reaperducer wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I certainly would not mind similar provisions in law in the US. I agree. Every time I see a sign that says "We're cashless!" I read it as "We're racist!" If the very minimal burden of handling cash is going to ruin your business, you're not a business. You're a hobby.

It's more like "We don't serve homeless people or the unbanked." It is correlated with race but it's unlikely to be a dogwhistle for racism as many cashless establishments are neuvo liberal. An example is downtown Austin there's a popular cashless place called "Local Foods" that's more hipster than hobby.

I see no contradiction here. A hipster place certainly would not want to let the homeless in to ruin the vibe.

Re: Austrian leader proposes enshrining the use of cash in country's constitution

#112

Post by AnthonyMouse »

digging wrote: post #104
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This dichotomy was made extremely apparent to me during the pandemic. In the US, not saying all opinions were homogenous but most of my liberal friends supported government actions during the pandemic (e.g. closures originally, then mask mandates, vaccine mandates, etc.) I'm friends with a number of folks from Eastern Europe, a couple of whom spent their early childhood under Ceausescu, and the difference couldn't ha…

What really sucks is that I can't say anybody is wrong for being skeptical of a government, insofar as any large organization with power over individuals is dangerous. But the critical mistake they are making is that this doesn't mean a government action can't be good. Coordinating public health responses is probably one of the most good government actions possible, and it was vilified for political power. In my mind…

The issue is that there's a difference between coordinating and coercing. If you want to have a body that studies the best way to stymie a pandemic and make recommendations, and one of those recommendations is to wear a mask in certain circumstances, that's great. If that body has a reputation for being competent and reasonable then most people will follow their recommendations.

The problem comes when those recommendations become regulations which get enforced without context or nuance, because then people chafe, and it becomes a political issue, and then people resist for the sake of resisting. Which makes everything worse, and that doesn't work.

The thing that works is for people to actually believe in the rules and follow them out of solidarity and self-interest. But then you don't need to point a gun at anybody. And by the time you've sullied your own reputation to the point that you do have to, you've already lost.

Re: Austrian leader proposes enshrining the use of cash in country's constitution

#113

Post by sjsdaiuasgdia »

cuttysnark wrote: post #108
sjsdaiuasgdia wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm going to make a really shitty analogy because I'm bored. Cash = chamber pot / outhouse Electronic payments = modern plumbing People shat for millennia without modern plumbing. Installing and maintaining modern plumbing often requires external expertise who will wish to be paid for their services. In developed countries, the modern plumbing also needs to connect to public infrastructure and comply with a variety o…

I like your analogy, but it excludes a reason I've heard from at least a few candid bar owners in NYC: "Do you know how much money you can hide in these drawers?" Which is to say "do you have any idea how peaceful it is to use the restroom with a locking door and no security cameras?" I'm not saying I agree with or endorse tax evasion—but some are doing it for this very reason, while others simply don't want a 3rd pa…

Forgive me if I don't exactly take "I can't commit crime as easily" as a good justification for anything.

If you don't like the tax law, work on getting it changed or move your business somewhere where the taxes are more to your liking. Oh, being in NYC gives you access to a massive market you wouldn't have if you were in a lower tax environment? A market that continues to exist thanks to infrastructure funded via tax revenue? Funny how that works...

Re: Austrian leader proposes enshrining the use of cash in country's constitution

#114

Post by sneak »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #48
throwaway60707 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Here in Europe, I have the feeling the vast majority of people consider it unnecessary. The vibe I get is "The system works, so why not let the government handle and control everything.". > I wouldn't be surprised if that is a golbal phenomena and holds steady throughout time. Come to the east of EU/Europe and you'll see a completely opposite vibe. No wonder, people in their 40s still remember communism. And the ol…

This dichotomy was made extremely apparent to me during the pandemic. In the US, not saying all opinions were homogenous but most of my liberal friends supported government actions during the pandemic (e.g. closures originally, then mask mandates, vaccine mandates, etc.) I'm friends with a number of folks from Eastern Europe, a couple of whom spent their early childhood under Ceausescu, and the difference couldn't ha…

Fact is, statistically speaking throughout history, distrusting government mandates is almost always a safe bet.

Of course, it's not true 100% of the time, but even if it's only 70% (and I'm pretty sure it's higher than that) it's a good default personal policy.

Re: Austrian leader proposes enshrining the use of cash in country's constitution

#115

Post by debacle »

hackyhacky wrote: post #77
debacle wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a very good idea to not assume public representatives are incompetent. I've worked with many people in Congress here in the US, and I haven't met one that wasn't startlingly smart. It feels good to think they're dumb, but it is very dangerous.

If they are so smart, why do they say so many dumb things?

Because their political objectives are completely tangential to what most of the apolitical public believes elected officials are motivated by.

Re: Austrian leader proposes enshrining the use of cash in country's constitution

#116

Post by em-bee »

gottorf wrote: post #7
DarkNova6 wrote: post #2

[flagged]

> it is a little surprising to see such political news on HN In my experience, currencies have been of consistent interest in HN. At least, if you consider cryptocurrencies as such ;-) > But this is a none-issue > is meant to be a step against organised crime Perhaps recent developments around the world would change your mind? The Canadian trucker protests of 2022 saw political protestors get bank accounts frozen, an…

in china recently businesses have been warned against refusing to accept cash. most online services also accept other payment options besides wechat. not having wechat pay is an inconvenience but not a tragedy.

Re: Austrian leader proposes enshrining the use of cash in country's constitution

#117

Post by alborzb »

pessimizer wrote: post #87
alborzb wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> recently a famous politician in the UK got de-banked partly out of his political views As a person in the UK, who is fairly in touch with the media industry. This is such a non-story. I just want to do my bit to fight disinformation with the real information here : That FORMER (not current) politician is a TV personality, who works for a TV channel called GB News [1] GB News is directly managed by Paul Marshall, i…

If you want to see the intentional spread of misinformation and intricate conspiracy theories with political motives, you might want to check a mirror. Exactly how does your "real information" stand up to: > BBC News > TV, radio and online, 4 July 2023 > We reported that the former UKIP leader Nigel Farage’s bank account had been closed by Coutts because he fell below the financial threshold needed for an account. Th…

>> People like you

>> But please talk more about that evil right wing news outlet

What on earth are you on about? "people like me" "evil right wing news" ?!

I have not referenced anything as either right or left wing. Nor did I mention anything of mine or anyone else's political leanings.

I cited my theory including several sources that show it to be factual that this television personality's employers gained several millions by causing the bank's share price to drop.

Yet you seem to be deploying personal attacks rather than finding fault with my core assumptions.

Re: Austrian leader proposes enshrining the use of cash in country's constitution

#118

Post by s1mplicissimus »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #61
BiteCode_dev wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but it did bring the concept to be debated to HN. I'm now thinking we should do it in my country.

In which country do you live where going cashless is a bigger concern for the population than healthcare, housing, education, cost of living and the rest, because I'd like to live there?

there's always bigger fish to fry and therefore we cannot talk about the smaller ones?

but srsly, "cashless" used to be a FPÖ (the far right party in Austria) topic, now the conservatives have finally picked up on it. I don't like either of their agendas and nobody seriously suggested going cashless in Austria.

However, I'm also not a fan of being forced to use a private company just to pay for my basic necessities. And it seems plausible to me that after a certain decline of cash usage and the corresponding decline in infrastructure, there will be a tipping point when handling cash becomes so expensive that it will be shut down for cost reasons.

A good question to ask imo is: Is it possible to hold a view that's not held by my political ingroup?

Re: Austrian leader proposes enshrining the use of cash in country's constitution

#119

Post by sneak »

OkayPhysicist wrote: post #85
BiteCode_dev wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It helps with accessibility, not with the problem that cashless is dangerous for democracy. Everytime you pay anything with something else than cash, it is recorded: the amount, the time, the place, and the nature of the thing you buy. There is no way to go to a gay bar (or another place loaded with consequences) without a trace. And this is needed for human dignity. There is way to support a controversial political…

Credit cards actually don't need electricity or the network to be up. That was kind of the original point. The business that you're paying trusts the card issuer to pay them on your behalf, so they can communicate the payment details to the bank asynchronously, and after supplying the paid for goods or services. But the rest of your point stands. Cash grants a lot more flexibility.

That hasn't been true for years.

CC processing today 100% requires power and network.

Re: Austrian leader proposes enshrining the use of cash in country's constitution

#120

Post by AnthonyMouse »

sdsd wrote: post #100
Makhini wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Poland cashless payments thrive, more than in Germany.

From childhood to adolescence I used to go on calls with my dad to fix air conditioners with my dad and we met a Polish couple. By this time I was 14 and communist, having read the motorcycle diaries. Anyway, I asked them about their experience growing up in communist Poland. The wife was absolutely disgusted towards communism. Mind you, this couple lived in a pretty luxurious two story house. She associated communis…

> How you knew you'd be able to go to college if you studied hard, how you'd get to go to summer camp, how you'd get an apartment when you got a job, and so on. Like you could kind of feel economically secure about your future in a way that you couldn't in capitalism.

It's sort of like, communism is for conformists. If your goal in life is to be a mid-level bureaucrat who never speaks out of turn then your rent gets paid.

But it's exactly that security that makes it fall apart. There is no penalty for mediocrity so it proliferates.

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