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Austrian leader proposes enshrining the use of cash in country's constitution

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Re: Austrian leader proposes enshrining the use of cash in country's constitution

#31

Post by bruce511 »

reaperducer wrote: post #22
gottorf wrote: post #4

I certainly would not mind similar provisions in law in the US.

I certainly would not mind similar provisions in law in the US. I agree. Every time I see a sign that says "We're cashless!" I read it as "We're racist!" If the very minimal burden of handling cash is going to ruin your business, you're not a business. You're a hobby.

It'll vary from place to place, but dealing with cash can be quite an expensive exercise. There are costs to depositing it for example. Plus there's a whole layer of security that happens when you have cash on the premises.

If you have employees, cash also makes it much (much) easier for theft, fraud, tax evasion, and so on. It's pretty easy for employees to skim cash if it's coming and going.

If the "cash" part of the business is small compared to the rest then it makes (business) sense to simply eliminate that.

I agree with you though that it has an unequal effect on different groups of people. And yes, the un-banked (and that typically means the poorer segment of society) tend to be the most affected.

Re: Austrian leader proposes enshrining the use of cash in country's constitution

#32

Post by BiteCode_dev »

TekMol wrote: post #8

What makes cash special is that compared to other assets, it puts a bit more power into the hands of the individual and a bit less power in the hands of the government. To count or seize the individuals cash, the government has to make some fuzz. Aka send men with guns. There seems to be some divide in our world between people who consider individual power a good thing and people who consider it unnecessary. Here in…

As a Frenchmen, I think we can't say we are against government oversight. But I don't think I would agree that:

> people consider it unnecessary

In fact, I've discussed a cashless society with friends, and the majority is against, precisely because of this.

Now it may be my bubble, and not apply to the average French citizen.

Re: Austrian leader proposes enshrining the use of cash in country's constitution

#33

Post by Vespasian »

reaperducer wrote: post #22
gottorf wrote: post #4

I certainly would not mind similar provisions in law in the US.

I certainly would not mind similar provisions in law in the US. I agree. Every time I see a sign that says "We're cashless!" I read it as "We're racist!" If the very minimal burden of handling cash is going to ruin your business, you're not a business. You're a hobby.

What Europe has since a few year though is a right to a bank account.

Banks must offer basic accounts to anybody (at nondiscriminatory pricing) and unless it's used for fraud or if the fee cannot be paid isn't allowed to close it.

That certainly helps.

Re: Austrian leader proposes enshrining the use of cash in country's constitution

#34

Post by BiteCode_dev »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #29
mike_hock wrote: post #5

[flagged]

It's not. The guy is an incompetent right wing a-hole who babblers populist ideas like this to get the people riled up like he's standing up for them with their best interest at heart, instead of focusing on the real issues that people face (housing, cost of living, healthcare, education, immigration, the economy, etc) He's basically the Donald Trump equivalent of Austria but instead of raising border walls to "stop…

A good idea is a good idea, even when uttered by terrible people.

If Hitler said german should eat more fruits and vegetables, that doesn't make it false.

Re: Austrian leader proposes enshrining the use of cash in country's constitution

#35

Post by NeoTar »

reaperducer wrote: post #25
alborzb wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> recently a famous politician in the UK got de-banked partly out of his political views As a person in the UK, who is fairly in touch with the media industry. This is such a non-story. I just want to do my bit to fight disinformation with the real information here : That FORMER (not current) politician is a TV personality, who works for a TV channel called GB News [1] GB News is directly managed by Paul Marshall, i…

The TV personality withdraw money from his Coutts account and fell below the minimum balance requirements needed for an account with this private bank From what I've seen on the news, the account balance issue was an excuse that Coutts came up with later, after it was revealed that he had his account closed because "his views do not align with ours" or something similar. There was a leaked email or memo or something…

One important aspect though was that Coutts is part of a larger banking group, who offered Mr Farrage a chance to open an account with Netwest, another bank in the group.

So it’s not that they refused him service totally and he was unable to obtain a bank account anywhere, which is in my opinion an important distinction.

Re: Austrian leader proposes enshrining the use of cash in country's constitution

#36

Post by FirmwareBurner »

BiteCode_dev wrote: post #34
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not. The guy is an incompetent right wing a-hole who babblers populist ideas like this to get the people riled up like he's standing up for them with their best interest at heart, instead of focusing on the real issues that people face (housing, cost of living, healthcare, education, immigration, the economy, etc) He's basically the Donald Trump equivalent of Austria but instead of raising border walls to "stop…

A good idea is a good idea, even when uttered by terrible people. If Hitler said german should eat more fruits and vegetables, that doesn't make it false.

>A good idea is a good idea

Everyone has good ideas, hell, I just had 3 good ideas this morning, the point is the intentions of political ideas, and he's intentions are purely for gathering populist support and votes from those doing tax fraud (a large sizable percentage in Austria) as going cashless was never an option in Austria anyway so it was a non-issue to begin with, a nothing burger if you will.

Re: Austrian leader proposes enshrining the use of cash in country's constitution

#37

Post by debacle »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #29
mike_hock wrote: post #5

[flagged]

It's not. The guy is an incompetent right wing a-hole who babblers populist ideas like this to get the people riled up like he's standing up for them with their best interest at heart, instead of focusing on the real issues that people face (housing, cost of living, healthcare, education, immigration, the economy, etc) He's basically the Donald Trump equivalent of Austria but instead of raising border walls to "stop…

It's a very good idea to not assume public representatives are incompetent.

I've worked with many people in Congress here in the US, and I haven't met one that wasn't startlingly smart.

It feels good to think they're dumb, but it is very dangerous.

Re: Austrian leader proposes enshrining the use of cash in country's constitution

#38

Post by FirmwareBurner »

debacle wrote: post #37
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not. The guy is an incompetent right wing a-hole who babblers populist ideas like this to get the people riled up like he's standing up for them with their best interest at heart, instead of focusing on the real issues that people face (housing, cost of living, healthcare, education, immigration, the economy, etc) He's basically the Donald Trump equivalent of Austria but instead of raising border walls to "stop…

It's a very good idea to not assume public representatives are incompetent. I've worked with many people in Congress here in the US, and I haven't met one that wasn't startlingly smart. It feels good to think they're dumb, but it is very dangerous.

Yes, privately schooled people groomed for political positions are not idiots in the classical term, and while he might not be incompetent at doing things that further his own agenda but he's incompetent at tackling present day issues as going cashless was never an issue in Austria to begin with.

Re: Austrian leader proposes enshrining the use of cash in country's constitution

#39

Post by raincom »

Banks hide behind their machine learning/AI algorithms to debank people and small businesses they don't like (reputational risk). Banks also use such tools to debank people and businesses in the name of derisking, because their tools flag so. That's why cash is important in the society; otherwise, you would be forced out of the society by going cashless.

Governments (worst offenders being the Western ones) across the world have forced private parties to do the dirty work for them without any due process.

Re: Austrian leader proposes enshrining the use of cash in country's constitution

#40

Post by BiteCode_dev »

Vespasian wrote: post #33
reaperducer wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I certainly would not mind similar provisions in law in the US. I agree. Every time I see a sign that says "We're cashless!" I read it as "We're racist!" If the very minimal burden of handling cash is going to ruin your business, you're not a business. You're a hobby.

What Europe has since a few year though is a right to a bank account. Banks must offer basic accounts to anybody (at nondiscriminatory pricing) and unless it's used for fraud or if the fee cannot be paid isn't allowed to close it. That certainly helps.

It helps with accessibility, not with the problem that cashless is dangerous for democracy.

Everytime you pay anything with something else than cash, it is recorded: the amount, the time, the place, and the nature of the thing you buy.

There is no way to go to a gay bar (or another place loaded with consequences) without a trace. And this is needed for human dignity.

There is way to support a controversial political movement without a trace. And this is necessary for new idea to come up.

There is not way for kids to do dumb things without a trace. And this is necessary for growing.

There is no way to pay for something when electricity or network goes down. And this is necessary to deal with crisis.

Basically, cash buys humanity margin of maneuver, and a fallback against any decaying societal or technical system.

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