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"It's A Brick" - Tesla Motors' Devastating Design Problem

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Re: "It's A Brick" - Tesla Motors' Devastating Design Problem

#111

Post by rdl »

pclark wrote: post #100

My confusion with Tesla is this: around the rest of the world - outside of USA - there are already very fuel efficient automobiles. 60, 80, even 90 miles per gallon are common and applauded in Europe. America has the opposite approach and appears to optimise for size, comfort and perceived safety. (SUVs, Trucks, large saloons.) None of the things American consumers appear to value are correlated in the Tesla. When I…

The market is a few types of rich person. The nerd (who just loves the tech), the guy who genuinely cares about the environment (but is either required to drive long distances, or is irrational), the person who wants a sportscar or luxury car but also wants to socialize with or date leftist/environmentalists, someone who wants a california hov lane sticker but doesn't want to ride a motorcycle every day, ...

This won't sell a few million cars a year, but I think in the USA, the market for the above is 50-100k cars per year, easy.

Re: "It's A Brick" - Tesla Motors' Devastating Design Problem

#112

Post by jambalaya »

throwaway64 wrote: post #88
fleitz wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's inherent to any lithium ion battery design which is why every laptop, iphone, etc that uses a lithium ion battery has circuitry that cuts power when the batter reaches 1% to 5% it can occur in your laptop if you discharge the battery entirely and then leave your battery uncharged for months (or less if stored cold). Some kind of chemical change occurs in Li batteries when completely discharged.

storing hot is what is detremental to lithium batteries, storing them cold increases lifetime

Should I store batteries I don't use in the fridge or freezer? I have a backup laptop battery for instance.

Re: "It's A Brick" - Tesla Motors' Devastating Design Problem

#113

Post by protomyth »

lhnn wrote: post #93
jdietrich wrote: post #75

Tesla are a sideshow and we desperately need to stop talking about them, because they're harming efforts to improve energy efficiency. Nissan are now in full production of the Leaf, a practical electric car that's half the price of the Model S. Renault have the Fluence ZE on sale in Israel and ready to go internationally this year. Mitsubishi are selling the i-MiEV in quantity in Hong Kong and Japan. All of these big…

I enjoy my Ford Bronco. I also enjoy my 35+ mpg V-Star. When a new, 30+ car comes out under $10k, pm me.

I drive a 2008 Kia Rio which gets 40mpg (100,000+ miles). The 2012 gets 30/40 and cost $12K. I am waiting for a hybrid that beats the Rio by a amount needed to justify the price difference. I look at the all electrics, but I cannot buy one because I live in an apartment with no plug-ins (kinda annoying in the winter) and travel 34 miles to work (one way).

Re: "It's A Brick" - Tesla Motors' Devastating Design Problem

#114

Post by jambalaya »

aufreak3 wrote: post #59

The real solution to this problem would be for tesla to setup "anti-brick" charging stations, install google's self-drive system on their cars, and program them to drive themselves to the nearest station and charge themselves if there is a risk of bricking ;P

We need Tesla's wireless power charging ;)

Re: "It's A Brick" - Tesla Motors' Devastating Design Problem

#115

Post by richardw »

pclark wrote: post #96
3am wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are precisely wrong. Targeting people that already buy into energy efficiency has low payoff. Say you have your enlightened urban dweller, getting 50mpg. With the fancy new hybrids, let's say they double that and get 100mpg. Given 100K miles of driving, that saves 1000 gallons of fuel. Now, take your suburbanite SUV driver getting 20mpg. You only have to get their mileage to 25mpg to save the same amount of fuel…

The point OP is making is that these SUV people fundamentally do not care about efficiency - if they do not care, they have no interest in optimising their milage. The messaging is mostly wasted.

I strongly suspect it's not a binary market with people that care about efficiency on the left and those that don't on the right. There'll be those that care, but prioritize higher performance. Those that want a bigger car due to safety reasons. Combinations thereof.

The market likely maps onto the technology adoption life cycle, and the hardcore SUV petrolheads are likely the 'late majority' or 'laggards'. That leaves a lot of room for market development before even considering those people. They'll take years or decades to change, so ignore them and focus on the customers in the early majority. That includes SUV or sportscar drivers who would like to save money, who do care about the environment, who have moved to a city, etc.

Re: "It's A Brick" - Tesla Motors' Devastating Design Problem

#117

Post by spenceyboi »

jdietrich wrote: post #75

Tesla are a sideshow and we desperately need to stop talking about them, because they're harming efforts to improve energy efficiency. Nissan are now in full production of the Leaf, a practical electric car that's half the price of the Model S. Renault have the Fluence ZE on sale in Israel and ready to go internationally this year. Mitsubishi are selling the i-MiEV in quantity in Hong Kong and Japan. All of these big…

How is Tesla trying to engineer around culture? If anything, they are engineering for our culture that is fascinated with high speed performance cars(Lamborghinis and Ferraris an example) and luxury cars(Bentleys and Lexus an example). Their models are giving what the customer wants. An electric car that is still fashionable in today's taste of cars. Of course the early models will have a few problems, but their widespread popularity after such a limited existence as a car company shows that Tesla is exactly what the consumer wants.

Re: "It's A Brick" - Tesla Motors' Devastating Design Problem

#118

Post by jambalaya »

moe wrote: post #54
Arelius wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unlike a laptop, the Tesla was never designed to be run while plugged in. Combined with the fact that they arent designed to hit zero battery. This is an easy oversight of design, where the laptop can run directly off of wall power not due to fix the problem of a dead battery, but to provide less stress on the battery while being used and plugged in. A usage case that does not exist under normal usage of a tesla. Add…

Unlike a laptop, the Tesla was never designed to be run while plugged in. Which is actually an amusing thought. Perhaps they could ship them with really long extension chords, just enough for a city-commute...

How about a driving around a generator :p It would be cool though to have wireless power from beneath the road or something.

Re: "It's A Brick" - Tesla Motors' Devastating Design Problem

#119

Post by georgieporgie »

At least in the case of the Tesla Roadster, it’s not even possible to enable tow mode, meaning the wheels will not turn and the vehicle cannot be pushed nor transported to a repair facility by traditional means.

Well, that's completely false. A flatbed, which seems to be pretty standard for towing these days, will have now problem at all winching that vehicle onto the platform, whether the wheels turn or not.

Re: "It's A Brick" - Tesla Motors' Devastating Design Problem

#120

Post by minimax »

huhtenberg wrote: post #87

Let me tell you how to brick a top of the line 2009 BMW. Easy-peasy. Lots of small trips, under 5 km, for 9 months. That's it. Apparently the discharge caused by starting the car and a draw from all the packages that are strapped to it are not offset by the charge received while driving unless the distance is at least 10 km per engine start. The only warning that the car gives is an "excessive battery discharge" and…

Any car needs to recharge the battery after cranking. Higher compression engines require more energy to crank. The "top of the line" performance of your bimmer is inexorably linked to the time it takes to recharge the battery.

As a BMW owner with a roughly 5km commute to work, I would suggest doing what I do: bicycle to work and save the car for dates and weekend cruises.

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