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Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

latimes.com

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Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#111

Post by ramesh31 »

kilgnad wrote: post #84
Phlarp wrote: post #20

Guess tech workers should have unionized when they had the chance. As if capital was going to let the most powerful group of workers that's ever existed continue to slip their noose

On a side note I feel we can take Unionization into the tech world as a start up or an App. Imagine a blind-esque App that just allows everyone participating to vote anonymously for a union. Then AFTER a union is official then leaders and instigators could reveal themselves or maybe there were no leaders or instigators the whole thing was p2p. I feel something as easy and convenient as blind can allow "unions in limb…

Unions are political entities with leadership and power structures. This would be akin to casting a random blind vote for president.

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#112

Post by alistairSH »

noorkersz wrote: post #2

follow up question, why hasn't apple needed to do this? how are they keeping 'tabs' on 'worker power'?

Apple didn't hire excessively last year. During the pandemic, Alphabet, Meta, and Amazon all had double-digit % employee growth. Apple did not - their growth was typical of previous years at Apple.

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/01/18/apple-had-slower-headcount-g...

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#113

Post by pessimizer »

imwillofficial wrote: post #36
pmarreck wrote: post #6

This claim violates Hanlon’s Razor “Never attribute to malice, that which can adequately be explained by incompetence.” Over-hiring, over-salarying and not anticipating the consequences of a pandemic and post-pandemic on business might qualify as “incompetence” The thing that bothers me is this tone I'm seeing online and in particular in this discussion where people presume that a salary is owed no matter what, and t…

I despise Hanlons razor. It flies against everything we know about people in power. Probably made popular by powerful

No, the powerful just leave out the "adequately" part, and it becomes "Unless you have access to physical evidence that something was intentional, every mistake in our favor was inadvertent."

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#114

Post by giantg2 »

tukantje wrote: post #80
arcticbull wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing to do with cheap money, tech companies are some of the most profitable and revenue efficient companies in history.

For the love of lord please keep saying this. Because it is true. And because I am sick and tired of this self hate of "inflated salaries". Jesus, we are working in one of the most profitable industries, whatever we build tends to be a long term force multiplier, and somehow a large portion of the sector thinks our earnings are inflated. The earnings of a hedge fund manager who makes 1.5 million pounds a day is infla…

"The earnings of a hedge fund manager who makes 1.5 million pounds a day is inflated. Not a software engineer living a decidedly middle class life."

Haha, ok. Can you not clearly see your own subjective bias? Why doesn't that hedgefund manager deserve it? Many of the people working for tech companies are not middle class. At the very least, $500k+ salaries are above middle class. The starting salary at most top-tier companies is multiple times the median salary. I say top-tier companies, because these are the ones doing the layoff. Analysts are saying there will be, or is, a slow down in many if the types of products (data) sold by these companies.

You can continue to think that $500k+ salaries are warranted because you're a force multiplier etc, but that's the same reasoning CEOs and fund mangers use. Maybe they are. But don't be surprised when hordes of average people call you out.

Edit: Why disagree?

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#115

Post by AnEro »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #64
AnEro wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doubt that will happen, we still go to this VC's website for content aggregation. Most are caught in hustle culter and want to be, and others are doing it for independance and power and won't want a union. Ultimately I don't think our type of nerds will get together on this style of politics

Important to keep in mind this forum’s audience is a minority in everything except said forum’s viewership. If you’re taking anything from it besides ideas, entertainment, and a dopamine hit, you’re doing it wrong.

Personally I subscribe to the 'you are what you eat' view of social media, we are social creatures, and we will always adjust ourselves to fit what we feel is THE group. Any media then makes subconscious biases whether we like it or not. I don't think YCombinator is doing brainwashing us or some crazy conspiracy, more we will conform to this audience's thinking which ultimately is about start-ups and tech company's and unions don't fit that narrative.

> Important to keep in mind this forum’s audience is a minority in everything except said forum’s viewership.

True but acting like Hacker news articles over years isn't one of the best social media based predictor of tech trends is a little silly

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#116

Post by empathy_m »

m3kw9 wrote: post #57

Or maybe it’s just a balance sheet thing

Both, I think. If everybody lays off 6% of staff in strategically low-value projects, there will be a glut of workers willing to take new lower salaries. These jobs are still in high demand, and the company can reset compensation for new hires to a new baseline.

Example of this happening here: https://twitter.com/hkarthik/status/1618007542483025923

This saves on labor costs at minimal productivity cost to the company. Great for capital.

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#117

Post by giantg2 »

arcticbull wrote: post #100
tukantje wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the love of lord please keep saying this. Because it is true. And because I am sick and tired of this self hate of "inflated salaries". Jesus, we are working in one of the most profitable industries, whatever we build tends to be a long term force multiplier, and somehow a large portion of the sector thinks our earnings are inflated. The earnings of a hedge fund manager who makes 1.5 million pounds a day is infla…

I think folks really lose perspective. Apple has a revenue per employee of $2,375,435 and that includes the janitorial staff. [1] [1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/217489/revenue-per-emplo...

Seems to be a paywall. What is the profit per employee, before and after employee costs?

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#118

Post by Phlarp »

kilgnad wrote: post #47
Phlarp wrote: post #20

Guess tech workers should have unionized when they had the chance. As if capital was going to let the most powerful group of workers that's ever existed continue to slip their noose

In the last decade or so, there were several times I brought this up on HN (anonymously), and each time my opinion was attacked as not making any sense. Times change.

I've been making pithy comments about tech bro unionization on the orange site for years now and I know exactly what you're talking about. Anything that even smelled like worker solidarity was shot down with vacuous logic about how the 10x engineers in big tech can't possibly be asked to associate with a lowly web master in a fly-over state.

Then suddenly today I said something and instantly got 100 upvotes...

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#119

Post by rachelbladdow »

Quarrelsome wrote: post #50
pm90 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be difficult to prove active collusion, its more like institutionalized collusion, and I doubt that's a crime. e.g. the same consulting firms are hired by all companies, and they will give the same advice when dealing with falling revenues, plunging stock prices etc.

> It would be difficult to prove active collusion Unless an IT admin stumbles across some interesting emails...

[flagged]

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#120

Post by pmarreck »

gilbert_vanova wrote: post #17
pmarreck wrote: post #6

This claim violates Hanlon’s Razor “Never attribute to malice, that which can adequately be explained by incompetence.” Over-hiring, over-salarying and not anticipating the consequences of a pandemic and post-pandemic on business might qualify as “incompetence” The thing that bothers me is this tone I'm seeing online and in particular in this discussion where people presume that a salary is owed no matter what, and t…

I have a recent counter razor: "Never attribute to malice or stupidity what is better explained by self-interest" Many of these orgs laying off thousands have fallen into the depths of a moral maze -- where rational thinking is just impossible and all that's left is self-preservation.

When business takes a downturn and you have to choose whether you get to eat or the person you're paying gets to eat, do "morals" really come into play, here?

> I have a recent counter razor: "Never attribute to malice or stupidity what is better explained by self-interest"

My modification: "Never attribute to malice or stupidity what is better explained by rational self-interest"

The key observation being that even people at odds often act in rational self-interest given the situation they are in with its associated needs and challenges, and the information they are aware of. The only way to bridge this is via communication.

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