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Young adults and mental health: Is more childhood independence the answer?

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Re: Young adults and mental health: Is more childhood independence the answer?

#111

Post by moonchrome »

WarOnPrivacy wrote: post #34
brightball wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s such a strange blend of wanting to let your kids roam while being more aware of dangers that exist, both online and off. It’s tough. For my son, Scouts have been wonderful for his independence. Can’t recommend it highly enough.

> It’s such a strange blend of wanting to let your kids roam while being more aware of dangers that exist, both online and off. Unaccompanied roaming is, by it's nature, offline-centric. The primary, actual risks to children who are roaming are those that involve law enforcement and intolerant adults. What does not present a meaningful risk to unaccompanied children is strangers. > For my son, Scouts have been wonder…

> The primary, actual risks to children who are roaming are those that involve law enforcement and intolerant adults.

Any statistics on that ?

I grew up in 90s and in a family with 5 younger siblings my mother couldn't keep up. I got hit by a car running across the street at 6 (I think I was that age). I would roam local forest and street - visiting there recently I remembered how I went to pick up my ball once and nearly pulled through grabbing on a small tree. I kind of remember local people running up to the fence and yelling me back. I had no perception of how dangerous it was back then - looking at it now it was ~ 10 m drop on sharp rocks - if I slid through I was probably dead. I remember a similar experience roaming a nearby forest next to a highway tunel exit.

Looking back I'm lucky to be alive. I have only one son and will probably get to have one more child, no 6 kids strategy for me.

The thought of my son having a similar childhood terrifies me.

Re: Young adults and mental health: Is more childhood independence the answer?

#112

Post by NERD_ALERT »

JoshTriplett wrote: post #83
mshake2 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Simply "disagreement" implies that there are valid opinions and perspectives to engage about. What we have now is a culture so polarized that you are literally evil to the other side if you disagree. We can't afford to have simple disagreements because if the other tribe destroys you, you need your tribe to support you. For example, name something of real political consequence that it is acceptable to disagree about.…

> For example, name something of real political consequence that it is acceptable to disagree about. "What is the most impactful way to ensure that everyone has sufficient clean water and nutritious food to survive? Would approach X or approach Y or approach Z save more lives? What other alternatives should we be considering? What are the tradeoffs and risks here? How can we hedge our bets to protect against those tr…

The political talking points are unfortunately not that sophisticated. It’s largely about how twitter is run by a cabal of SJWs silencing the freedom to post Hunter Biden’s dick pics or fantasies about the liberals who will throw a tantrum if you say their pronouns wrong.

Re: Young adults and mental health: Is more childhood independence the answer?

#113

Post by dymk »

swader999 wrote: post #44
goldcd wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you know that's simply not true. I was a smoker in my 20s and quit finally in my 40s. Are you suggesting my f'ed up choices were in some way better than taking a load of selfies in my twenties and growing out of it in their thirties?

Maybe. Smoking is a very social habit at least. Whose to say the isolation and depression from phones/social media is less harmful?

How is smoking a social habit? I see people stepping away from groups to go smoke elsewhere.

Re: Young adults and mental health: Is more childhood independence the answer?

#114

Post by cloutchaser »

UncleOxidant wrote: post #95
julianeon wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So how do we be more like Germany? Presumably German parents prepare their kids early. I'm just not sure what changes this would involve parents making.

How about we just be more like the US was before about the 90s? As a kid who grew up in the 70s there's really a lot of truth to the "70's mom" memes/jokes. I could go with my buddies night fishing down on a pier on the bay about a mile away when I was 10 - we just had to be back by 10PM. That wouldn't happen now.

Something went wrong in the US after 911. I don’t think it’s just the government. The entire capitalist machine realised just how profitable fear can be, and that’s been one of the big marketing angles in the 2000s. Especially in media, but elsewhere like supplements and drugs too.

But the society wide impact of that has been a much more fearful people, obviously making parents more protective too.

Re: Young adults and mental health: Is more childhood independence the answer?

#115

Post by xabotage »

meowtimemania wrote: post #92
xabotage wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is definitely a massive breakdown of old social institutions that have not adapted to the modern world. People don't need to be closely knit to their families and local religion in order to survive anymore, and they are simultaneously discovering how awful these institutions habitually are. To improve families, I imagine we'd have to wait for a significantly large generation to mature whose parents started a fa…

What is the modern replacement for religion? Growing up I felt like I had this huge tight-knit community via the mormon church. I've since left mormonism and don't think I'll ever find a replacement for the community I had in the church.

There won't be an exact replacement because the circumstances that led to the community cannot (or rather, should not) be replicated. For the sake of the survival of the planet/species, I also don't think any institution based around magical thinking should fill the gap.

Keep in mind that high-demand religions require a huge investment of time and money. Devoting even just a fraction of those resources to hobbies, art classes, and/or other local activities tends to yield much better social results. While this might not perfectly fill the gap, neither did the religion, which is why people are leaving it.

Re: Young adults and mental health: Is more childhood independence the answer?

#116

Post by lr4444lr »

jasonhansel wrote: post #9

> Chentsova Dutton said America has an international reputation for prizing autonomy, but her study opened her eyes to a more complicated picture. American parents tend to be overprotective when children are young, acting as if kids are going to live at home for a long time, like parents do in Italy. Yet they also expect children to live away from home fairly early for college, like families do in Germany. The result…

It fits well with the general American mythos of self development by staking out alone into the unknown to seek your fortune (not necessarily a literal one) - whether that be out west, into the factories of the city, the natural resource rich boom towns, or overseas in foreign war. It is as if you're not really "doing it right" if you come into it too prepared.

Re: Young adults and mental health: Is more childhood independence the answer?

#117

Post by dpkirchner »

yucky wrote: post #80
Max-q wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> To be fair, I don't blame them. I think it’s fair to say that the blame is on us, the current parents generation. We have formed todays youth differently than our parents formed us.

That's a cop out, and only reinforces their internalized belief that literally nothing is their own fault. Find a Gen Z person who is fully accountable for their own actions and you will have located a unicorn. It's uncanny how in-sync that entire generation is with the idea that they are not only owed the world, but have no fault. They are crippled by the actions of "others" (whoever the others are doesn't matter -…

I wonder how much of this is just what we're seeing online. As we all know, a relatively small number of people post anything publicly.

Re: Young adults and mental health: Is more childhood independence the answer?

#118

Post by [deleted] »

bill_joy_fanboy wrote: post #98
plsbenice34 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Harmful parenting styles lead to children that grow up to be debilitated and somehow it gets turned around to be called 'entitlement'. It's just shifting the blame from the bad parents to the child, like victim blaming.

Whenever someone uses the word "entitled", I just hear my mom. People who participate in and contribute to society are entitled to things. They should have a sufficient wage, safe housing, food and clean water. If I as a tax-paying, working member of society am not "entitled" to anything, why would I care about the perpetuation of the society? If I'm not "entitled" to anything, why should I care about anything or any…

[deleted]

Re: Young adults and mental health: Is more childhood independence the answer?

#119

Post by WalterBright »

cloutchaser wrote: post #114
UncleOxidant wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about we just be more like the US was before about the 90s? As a kid who grew up in the 70s there's really a lot of truth to the "70's mom" memes/jokes. I could go with my buddies night fishing down on a pier on the bay about a mile away when I was 10 - we just had to be back by 10PM. That wouldn't happen now.

Something went wrong in the US after 911. I don’t think it’s just the government. The entire capitalist machine realised just how profitable fear can be, and that’s been one of the big marketing angles in the 2000s. Especially in media, but elsewhere like supplements and drugs too. But the society wide impact of that has been a much more fearful people, obviously making parents more protective too.

> Something went wrong in the US after 911.

Well before then. I got one of the last chemistry sets around 1970, when they were all emasculated.

> The entire capitalist machine realised just how profitable fear can be

Oh come on. A huge driver of this problem is the legal system which encourages jackpot lawsuits, along with our culture of it's always someone else's fault (usually the party with money that becomes worthwhile to sue).

Re: Young adults and mental health: Is more childhood independence the answer?

#120

Post by jasonhansel »

OJFord wrote: post #100
jasonhansel wrote: post #9

> Chentsova Dutton said America has an international reputation for prizing autonomy, but her study opened her eyes to a more complicated picture. American parents tend to be overprotective when children are young, acting as if kids are going to live at home for a long time, like parents do in Italy. Yet they also expect children to live away from home fairly early for college, like families do in Germany. The result…

> Yet they also expect children to live away from home fairly early for college Except American children away from home 'for college' are still exactly 'children', home with different parents. The culture of halls and canteens and the way it's funded is much more 'provided for you' than 'you're providing for yourself now'. I don't get the sense (from NA undergrads I've known, film, etc.) that much learning to cook go…

> Certainly anyone living 'off-campus' and having bills to pay is in a minority.

Only among wealthier students:

- 70% of students have jobs while enrolled, depending crucially on socioeconomic status: https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2019/11/18/most-college-...

- In typical public colleges, only 36% of students live in dorms, vs. 58% in typical private colleges: https://collegeaffordability.urban.org/prices-and-expenses/r...

- 36% of students face food insecurity: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2018/04/03/the-h...

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