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Podman Desktop: A Free OSS Alternative to Docker Desktop

podman-desktop.io

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Re: Podman Desktop: A Free OSS Alternative to Docker Desktop

#111

Post by gbraad »

raro11 wrote: post #7

Docker Desktop for Mac released an experimental file sharing implementation back in March[0]. It made working with Docker bearable. Does anyone know how well Podman performs on Mac? Especially file sharing. Edit: A quick Google led me back to this HackerNews comment[1]. Looks like Docker for Mac is faster. [0] https://www.docker.com/blog/speed-boost-achievement-unlocked... [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=323…

At the moment podman machine on macOS uses Qemu and their filesharing stack. Qemu allowed us to move quickly utilizing the same deployment stategy. However I work on CRC (a related project) and we have a driver based on virtualization framework using virtiofs. We hope to integrate this in `podman machine` soon as it will improve performance. Ideally we want to boot with the kernel and ramdisk provided by the image, though this isn't the case until macOS 13 (which brings EFI support). So, yes... hopefully soon. We just want to make sure we provide a stable and maintainable solution.

Re: Podman Desktop: A Free OSS Alternative to Docker Desktop

#112

Post by anderspitman »

gbraad wrote: post #111
raro11 wrote: post #7

Docker Desktop for Mac released an experimental file sharing implementation back in March[0]. It made working with Docker bearable. Does anyone know how well Podman performs on Mac? Especially file sharing. Edit: A quick Google led me back to this HackerNews comment[1]. Looks like Docker for Mac is faster. [0] https://www.docker.com/blog/speed-boost-achievement-unlocked... [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=323…

At the moment podman machine on macOS uses Qemu and their filesharing stack. Qemu allowed us to move quickly utilizing the same deployment stategy. However I work on CRC (a related project) and we have a driver based on virtualization framework using virtiofs. We hope to integrate this in `podman machine` soon as it will improve performance. Ideally we want to boot with the kernel and ramdisk provided by the image, t…

Do you have a link to that virtiofs implementation?

Re: Podman Desktop: A Free OSS Alternative to Docker Desktop

#113

Post by cmeacham98 »

vbernat wrote: post #87
cmeacham98 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not them, but my employer makes it a major PITA to add non-standard repositories on the corporate Ubuntu image because of the weird and non-standard way Apt is configured. The "docker.io" package available in the official Ubuntu repository is typically horribly out of date. Additionally, (and admittedly this isn't really Docker's fault), the default IP range for Docker's network happens to conflict with my employer's…

All LTS versions are using 20.10.12. That's less than one year old. I don't see how horribly out of date this is.

I should have been more specific: It's been a few months (maybe even a year?) since I last checked, but that package used to not include buildx which I need, that's what I meant by out of date.

Re: Podman Desktop: A Free OSS Alternative to Docker Desktop

#114

Post by gbraad »

cybervegan wrote: post #32

Pity it's only available as a tarball or .flatpak. I've never got flatpak to work before, and it doesn't work this time either. :-(

What issue are you having with the flatpak? Perhaps it is best to file an issue here https://github.com/containers/podman-desktop/issues/new/choo.... As some details like your distro, versions, etc might help to resolve this.

Since you mention, is the tarball not an option? This is supposed to be portable. What would you prefer?

Re: Podman Desktop: A Free OSS Alternative to Docker Desktop

#115

Post by galleywest200 »

I really tried to use Podman, but I kept running into issues trying to get a rootless deployment on RHEL that used a protected port (53) and it gave me so much trouble that I uninstalled Podman and installed Docker.

Maybe I can try again, but it was frustrating enough to turn me away for a while.

Re: Podman Desktop: A Free OSS Alternative to Docker Desktop

#116

Post by gbraad »

majka72 wrote: post #83

I wonder what virtualization they are using on mac.

At the moment Qemu using podman machine as that allowed for faster iteration. I work on some of this enablement as part of the CRC team. We have a fully working driver for the virtualization framework, with virtiofs support. We would to integrate this, though at the moment essential EFI support is only available in macOS 13. You can try CRC with the podman preset (!) to test this. It would not be exactly the same as podman machine will run a different setup process instead, it does allow you to see the performance. If you need help, just ping me. Gladly will help

Re: Podman Desktop: A Free OSS Alternative to Docker Desktop

#117

Post by gbraad »

syntaxing wrote: post #60
mindwok wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main benefits touted are that Podman can run rootless containers and it doesn’t need a daemon compared to Docker. However those comparisons are less relevant now than they were a while ago because Docker can now run rootless containers and Podman has developed a heap of systemd hooks that effectively use that as the daemon. It does have some good features though, like being compatible with Kubernetes manifests. I…

Is there a portainer equivalent for podman (web based instead of a desktop app)?

You can use the podman module that is part of cockpit-project. It runs on different versions of linux and you can also expose this from a remote machine or VM.

It has a different aim, more of an admin view. I do use it regularly and would gladly take questions for the team. At some point we integrated this as a temporary solution for CRC to provide a container management view.

https://cockpit-project.org/

As an example https://www.tutorialworks.com/podman-monitoring-cockpit-fedo...

If you have suggestions to improve just let me know. I work closely with that team. And they gladly take feature requests or comments

Re: Podman Desktop: A Free OSS Alternative to Docker Desktop

#119

Post by gbraad »

anderspitman wrote: post #112
gbraad wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the moment podman machine on macOS uses Qemu and their filesharing stack. Qemu allowed us to move quickly utilizing the same deployment stategy. However I work on CRC (a related project) and we have a driver based on virtualization framework using virtiofs. We hope to integrate this in `podman machine` soon as it will improve performance. Ideally we want to boot with the kernel and ramdisk provided by the image, t…

Do you have a link to that virtiofs implementation?

The virtiofs implementation we use is the native one provided by Apple according to our virtiofs spec. https://virtio-fs.gitlab.io/

You can try running https://github.com/crc-org/crc with the podman preset (!) to test it. It would not be exactly the same how podman machine will use it eventually, but might help to give an idea of performance or issues we can improve on. We have seen a lot of users being more than content as it also works in a vpn environment. Note that the CRC tool primarily aims at OpenShift deployment... This is a different preset (resource intensive). Only available as an installer with our tray (sorry about this).

The driver we use is https://github.com/crc-org/vfkit and I am sure Christophe could share a method to just run the VM with our driver. HMU by email if you prefer.

Re: Podman Desktop: A Free OSS Alternative to Docker Desktop

#120

Post by anderspitman »

gbraad wrote: post #119
anderspitman wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have a link to that virtiofs implementation?

The virtiofs implementation we use is the native one provided by Apple according to our virtiofs spec. https://virtio-fs.gitlab.io/ You can try running https://github.com/crc-org/crc with the podman preset (!) to test it. It would not be exactly the same how podman machine will use it eventually, but might help to give an idea of performance or issues we can improve on. We have seen a lot of users being more than con…

Thanks for the info. I don't actually use MacOS myself, but I'm interested in getting faster userspace networking and filesystem sharing for Linux and Windows hosts. virtiofs is interesting but it's unfortunate that it requires a daemon and AFAIK doesn't run on Windows hosts.
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