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Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

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Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#111

Post by flumpcakes »

_dain_ wrote: post #48
Y-bar wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Hosting providers MUST be forced to provide a platform for everyone and anyone against the will of the provider. It SHALL NOT matter how many people their customers brag about driving to suicide. Nor should the hosting provider take into consideration harassment campaigns orchestrated by users of their platforms. -- Stallman, probably? /endsarcasm

Quoted post unavailable.

I'm not sure on all of your claims, and frankly I can't be bothered to get any more into this drama but I will say one thing:

I found it shocking that the person behind the dropkiwifarms campaign does openly say they are making home-made drugs, and proudly say they will organise for children to take it without parental consent. I'm sure this must be illegal?

This is entirely ignored in all reporting of the Cloudflare situation. If I was a reporter and I saw this in my 5 minutes of research, I would very quickly find someone else to be the spokesperson of dropkiwifarms.

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#112

Post by arcatech »

nemo44x wrote: post #86
arcatech wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The person you’re responding to said “designed to promote hate speech”. Your examples don’t sound like that.

What does that mean? That the forum operator doesn’t have moderation facilities that suits your tastes in what is and is not hate speech? A forum dedicated to the principal and culture of free speech is designed to promote hate speech?

Hate speech is clearly defined in various laws against the concept. So it’s not really up to taste. Most popular services attempt to remove hate speech, but doesn’t look like KF does.

Btw, a forum dedicated to the principle and culture of free speech would absolutely (by definition) be promoting/hosting hate speech.

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#113

Post by washadjeffmad »

flumpcakes wrote: post #46
Borgz wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe if they decide to become platforms exclusively dedicated to harrassment, stop prohibiting and removing that type of content, and actively encourage it. Until then, it doesn't seem likely.

I've browsed through kiwifarms and they seem to say horrible stuff about people but in my sample I haven't seen anyone directing action against someone. It was a good source of information that was omitted from the press regarding a recent case in the UK about terminal medical care. I saw some nasty comments about the person, but in the few hundred forum pages no calls to action or threats made against the people. Is…

Incitement as a tactic doesn't require a direct call to action. When someone manufactures an ideological enemy, describes a reason they are intolerable, gives others the language and the arguments to convince others, and in turn foments the making of a mob, then each euphemistically independent actor is doing so with the tacit support and blessing of a power group.

Does it make a difference to you whether it's happened on Kiwifarms or Jan 6th?

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#114

Post by prvit »

flumpcakes wrote: post #106
thinkingemote wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've read that 4chan works proactively with law enforcement, regularly notifying them as soon as possible. They don't have a "wait for a warrant" policy that neutral providers claim, they will eagerly submit and support LEOs. This might be why it has survived so long. The common idea about the forum is that there is no moderation, but the truth is that the moderation is invisible. (The content is beyond the pale, and…

I think they probably do. There is another comment below saying the owner/moderator/whatever of Kiwifarms also works with "law enforcement organisations" on anything illegal on the site. Mass murderers have live-streamed their rampages on Facebook. I'm sure Facebook also work with police. Other than the horrible nasty comments (which I've seen much worse on Facebook/Twitter/YouTube/social media in greater numbers) I…

Most sites would delete your posts if you post someones SSN and credit report. Yet, I can easily find such posts going back years on Kiwifarms

For example: http://uquusqsaaad66cvub4473csdu4uu7ahxou3zqc35fpw5d4ificedz...

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#115

Post by LinuxBender »

prvit wrote: post #96
LinuxBender wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they have the time and are willing to put in the effort, they can create a myriad of Tor onion servers that are just nginx proxy-cache nodes that forward over a VPN mesh to their application servers. The end-users would have to be aware of all the onion cache servers somehow or their application would have to load balance people across them and keep some unannounced and cycle some in and out.

This isn't meaningfully different from using onionbalance, the attackers will still be at a significant advantage.

I know what you mean and somewhat agree. I don't know much about KF but I assume they probably have subforums and groups of people within those forums. What I have seen people do in the past is set up what I described above and then share half of the random cache nodes with the general public and then share specific nodes with sub-groups of people keeping the site accessible to the regular or trusted users. The public cache nodes can have stricter limits on how many requests are forwarded over the VPN. Perhaps this is not compatible with KF's model. I've never seen their site aside from the CF error message.

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#116

Post by barrysteve »

concordDance wrote: post #50
oneplane wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

The word "Nazi" seems to have expanded in meaning a lot recently, not sure the 1940s Germans would recognize these people as Nazis.

Some people have tilted the pronunciation of the word into 'not-see'. Out of sight, out of mind.

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#117

Post by fullstop »

nemo44x wrote: post #107
fullstop wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not here to define hate speech, and I think that you'd agree that HN was not designed to encourage and promote hate speech. You absolutely can not say the same thing of Kiwifarms. Let's not be deliberately obtuse here.

There are different degrees, sure. And this place has moderation. But what is the line? Be precise and avoid arbitrary definitions. There are threads here where people call for wealthy peoples heads. Did that cross a line? Could we say it about other people?

That is still not the primary purpose of HN. Those comments should be flagged, of course, but they in no way align with the specific purpose of HN.

Kiwifarms was founded to troll and harass a specific webcomic author. From there it evolved to target and harass specific people or communities.

Surely you see the difference here.

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#118

Post by [deleted] »

nemo44x wrote: post #107
fullstop wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not here to define hate speech, and I think that you'd agree that HN was not designed to encourage and promote hate speech. You absolutely can not say the same thing of Kiwifarms. Let's not be deliberately obtuse here.

There are different degrees, sure. And this place has moderation. But what is the line? Be precise and avoid arbitrary definitions. There are threads here where people call for wealthy peoples heads. Did that cross a line? Could we say it about other people?

[deleted]

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#120

Post by cygx »

flumpcakes wrote: post #106
thinkingemote wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've read that 4chan works proactively with law enforcement, regularly notifying them as soon as possible. They don't have a "wait for a warrant" policy that neutral providers claim, they will eagerly submit and support LEOs. This might be why it has survived so long. The common idea about the forum is that there is no moderation, but the truth is that the moderation is invisible. (The content is beyond the pale, and…

I think they probably do. There is another comment below saying the owner/moderator/whatever of Kiwifarms also works with "law enforcement organisations" on anything illegal on the site. Mass murderers have live-streamed their rampages on Facebook. I'm sure Facebook also work with police. Other than the horrible nasty comments (which I've seen much worse on Facebook/Twitter/YouTube/social media in greater numbers) I…

There is another comment below saying the owner/moderator/whatever of Kiwifarms also works with "law enforcement organisations" on anything illegal on the site.

Not ones from New Zealand, though: https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/christchurch-mosque-shootings-...

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