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The Xinjiang Police Files

xinjiangpolicefiles.org

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Re: The Xinjiang Police Files

#111

Post by mschuster91 »

Melting_Harps wrote: post #70
femiagbabiaka wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not a far cry, it is in fact almost exactly the same situation, although to my knowledge the crimes of Israel are much more well documented by many sources. Also note that it has taken almost a decade to get to this level of awareness and still to this day Israel critics are called anti-semites and worse. Hopefully more widespread awareness and outrage about the treatment of Muslims in Xinjiang comes soon. EDIT…

[flagged]

> No, they are called Nazis, when anyone with a even a shred of reason would conclude that Zionism is the very reincarnation of Nazism and is used to suit their own agenda and narrative.

What? Israel doesn't run concentration camps, forced labor camps, or rounds up and executes Palestinians for being Palestinians.

That comparison is not just factually wrong, it's one of the most morally despicable takes I have ever had the displeasure of reading here on HN.

Re: The Xinjiang Police Files

#113

Post by 4ggr0 »

emptysongglass wrote: post #74
4ggr0 wrote: post #28

I hope that this is a genuine leak showing what's going on there. Just don't like the organisation behind this leak, at all, and don't really trust them. But as long as this leak is objective I can ignore this aspect. Really sickening to see what's going on in Xinjiang. EDIT: I said it's sickening to see what's going on and i strongly oppose what China is doing in Xinjang, am I really getting downvotes just because I…

From the Hacker News Guidelines: "Please don't comment about the voting on comments. It never does any good, and it makes boring reading."

I have a big issue with this rule, especially if it's about my own comment: People downvoted my comment without giving a feedback about what they don't like. How should I better myself in this case? I'm not saying that these votes are unjustified, I would just like to know why I received them. I wasn't trolling or insulting someone, so it's not like my comment is objectively bad.

As soon as I added my edit to ask why I was downvoted, people started giving feedback about it, you can check the timestamps yourself. So If I wouldn't have asked for it, I maybe still wouldn't know why people didn't like what I wrote.

Now I know that the rule you posted is as it is and can't be argued against, I just wanted to explain why I broke it. I actually never looked at the HN Guidelines, guess I should.

And thanks for posting the rule :)

Re: The Xinjiang Police Files

#114

Post by femto »

dirtyid wrote: post #87

[flagged]

A casual Google search will turn up evidence.

Just one example of many: Uyghur workers, complete with police guards, are being supplied to factories throughout China.

"Another new advertisement claimed to be able to supply 1,000 Uyghur workers aged 16 to 18 years. It reads: ‘The advantages of Xinjiang workers are: semi-military style management, can withstand hardship, no loss of personnel … Minimum order 100 workers!’. The advertisement also said that factory managers can apply for current Xinjiang police to be stationed at their factory 24 hours a day, and that the workers could be delivered (along with an Uyghur cook) within 15 days of the signing of a one-year contract (Figure 9)."

https://www.aspi.org.au/report/uyghurs-sale

Another piece of evidence: comprehensive mapping of a network of 380 detention facilities:

https://xjdp.aspi.org.au/explainers/exploring-xinjiangs-dete...

This page, "The Xinjiang Data Project", hosts a series of ongoing reports and data from Xinjiang:

https://xjdp.aspi.org.au/

Re: The Xinjiang Police Files

#115

Post by oreally »

rich_sasha wrote: post #98
oreally wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can totally learn about something without physically going there. And you can make mistakes with that learning too. And this isn't the first time - I recall the CIA claiming some farm buildings being missile silos. This is why you get closer to see if there are any mistakes. Otherwise you're just taking a single narrative and running with it, and repeating it. Multiple perspectives HELP. Regarding evidence - do…

You're arguing against points I'm not making. All I'm saying is, arranged visits by Chinese government to Xinjiang are meaningless and can't prove, or even hint, what China is really doing there. The "evidence" provided by China will look the same, regardless of their fault or virtue. So going/not going on such trips, and any authority rejecting or accepting this as evidence are meaningless.

> All I'm saying is, arranged visits by Chinese government to Xinjiang are meaningless and can't prove, or even hint, what China is really doing there. The "evidence" provided by China will look the same, regardless of their fault or virtue.

Just following the lines of thought. Essentially they've already accepted that the china trip is tainted and meaningless, even before taking the chance to opening their perspective on whether they could be wrong.

If life is suffering why not give up then?

This goes counter to the values of being 'open'. For someone of the free world this isn't very free.

Re: The Xinjiang Police Files

#117

Post by simonh »

grapeskin wrote: post #99
simonh wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The international community looks at Israel and sees Arab citizens, Arab judges including on the supreme court, the 14 current elected Arab members of the Knesset. They look at the ancient, vibrant jewish communities that have historically been well integrated across the predominantly Arab nations of the Middle East for thousands of years and... Sorry, who are the Nazis? I'm in no way trying to justify everything don…

China has Uyghur politicians, so by your reasoning, they're identical to Israel.

In China you are a member of an ethnic minority if one of your grandparents was of that ethnicity, who themselves might only have had one grandparent of that ethnicity. There are also incentives for people to register as members of minority groups such as scholarships*, yet also stark differences in the treatment of members of minorities who are or are not integrated into Chinese culture and the communist party in particular.

It's a deliberate program of ethnic and cultural dilution and assimilation. As a result the CCP, police, etc in these regions are packed with "members of ethnic minorities" who are culturally entirely Han/Commnist and may have had an ethnic ancestor, or at least have a certificate that says so. This process is much more advanced in regions like Inner Mongolia, but they're grinding away at the native culture in Xinjiang and Tibet.

* Funnily enough the criteria for scholarships open to minority groups emphasise academic performance in secular subjects, in the Chinese language and often with a political dimension heavily favouring students with strong Han cultural backgrounds.*

Re: The Xinjiang Police Files

#118

Post by tigerlily »

md_ wrote: post #52
shellfishgene wrote: post #33

I'm always surprised how little interest there seems to be from the international muslim community in the Xinjiang situation, given that at least parts of it really blow up over even minor anti-Islam actions by single individuals quite regularly. The actions of China seem at least in part aimed at extinguishing Islam as a religion in the region, which would seem far worse than some person drawing a cartoon. But maybe…

Some of it might have to do with both covert and overt influence by China on foreign powers. https://harpers.org/archive/2022/04/the-spies-next-door-uigh... goes into a little detail here: "China also employs diplomatic pressure and financial incentives to secure foreign assistance in its efforts to persecute Uighurs abroad. Imran Khan, the prime minister of Pakistan—one of China’s principal allies and the recipient…

> Turkish police have detained over one hundred Uighurs

Seems unbelievable considering Uighurs are, well, Turkic. Due in no small part to Genghis Khan of course.

Re: The Xinjiang Police Files

#119

Post by mschuster91 »

oreally wrote: post #41
chrischen wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you explain his controversy (I wasn't able to find anything on a quick Google search)?

Here's a quora: https://www.quora.com/How-credible-are-Adrian-Zenz-one-of-th... and a quote: " Zenz’ academic qualifications, much touted, don’t stand up to much scrutiny. His h-index is 12, about a quarter of the 40 that a ‘good’ academic should have, especially a mid-career 47-year old. His roles are all with anti-China think tanks, not academic positions. He’s in a bubble of anti-Communism and anti-China funding a…

Even if Adrian Zenz himself may be a person with a questionable character and ethics, the claims in the leak have all been independently verified by an international media coalition, including German private paper Spiegel, German public broadcaster Bayerischer Rundfunk, the BBC and Le Monde [1].

They used a combination of OSINT (e.g. extracting metadata from files or cross-checking photos with satellite images), old-school journalism (= calling phone numbers or connecting with relatives of people abroad) and forensic science (by contracting the Fraunhofer Institute).

[1] https://www.spiegel.de/ausland/xinjiang-police-files-so-habe...

Re: The Xinjiang Police Files

#120

Post by Melting_Harps »

simonh wrote: post #86
Melting_Harps wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

The international community looks at Israel and sees Arab citizens, Arab judges including on the supreme court, the 14 current elected Arab members of the Knesset. They look at the ancient, vibrant jewish communities that have historically been well integrated across the predominantly Arab nations of the Middle East for thousands of years and... Sorry, who are the Nazis? I'm in no way trying to justify everything don…

> Sorry, who are the Nazis?

I've made it quite clear, and you even stated you think Zionism is abhorrent, why would you ask such a myopic question? Much worse, think that 'whataboutism' is an adequate deflection of what has been blatant genocide and crimes against Humanity.

I'm not going to indulge your Zionist propaganda about flourishing cities.

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