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Ask HN: How to break anxiety/fear-avoidance cycle?

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Re: Ask HN: How to break anxiety/fear-avoidance cycle?

#111
First thing:

If you are about to fail a class or out of school due to anxiety, go and tell someone.

This happens all the time so there will be standard things they can do about it, routines, process and guidelines etc.

When stressed things can seem epic and scary, which makes it hard to reach out.

Long term:

This sounds like ADHD to me. It might be partially anxiety, depression and other things mixed in. It's hard to tell as they can cause and worsen each other.

Try all the standard advice for stress and procrastination and see what works for you. Do you have a sporty hobby, try doing more of that. Is your diet or sleep schedule crap, sort that out. Read about the physical impacts of stress so you can recognize the feeling and find some method that works to chill you out, whether that's meditation or going for a walk or reading a book. Find stupid tricks that work for your brain (study buddies, pomodoro timers, breaking things down into smaller tasks, starting the task while intentionally not caring if it's perfect or even good just to get going, there's lots of different tricks that work for different people at different times).

Re: Ask HN: How to break anxiety/fear-avoidance cycle?

#112

The way you describe your problem makes me think that you might need the assistance of a therapist to overcome it.

I'd add the caveat that therapists are like friends and teachers: who they are as people matters for how effective they are professionally.

Treat finding a therapist like dating or considering a friendship with someone. A therapist can be a very good therapist (objectively) but not click with you.

It's okay to say "I'm trying out multiple therapists right now to see who fits best. Can we just do introductions with each other?"

Find someone who you respect, shares some beliefs with you, and generally has a compatible outlook on life.

Re: Ask HN: How to break anxiety/fear-avoidance cycle?

#113
post #93

You are not trying to avoid failure, you are giving yourself a cushion to avoid confronting the fact that you may not be as good as you think that you are. The cushion is that you didn't apply yourself to the maximum because you procrastinated and ergo it isn't you who failed, but a you who did not apply themselves. Why do we do it? Out of self preservation. Confronting the fact that the reality does not match our id…

This resonates with me. Tips on how to apply this?

Radical honesty, radical acceptance, and introspection.

The idea of radical honesty is to avoid all forms of "dishonesty" which also includes omission. If you are feeling or experiencing something, you have to accept it and articulate it even that entails becoming vulnerable and losing some of the metaphorical shield that protects you.

In the example above: radical honesty is admitting that we are trying to protect our ego from being punctured by avoiding what is making us uncomfortable.

Radical acceptance calls for the acceptance of the current circumstances, i.e. expressing it is what it is, and trying to make the best of the situation. I can't change the fact that I am not as intelligent as Terrence Tao or Erik Demaine even though our childhoods up to a point were identical. The past can't change because the future wants it, so might as well try to create a future that doesn't want to change the past.

In the example above, radical acceptance for me was accepting that I can't just sit in the class and absorb the material as I did in undergrad, but instead I had to actively work for it to get the same grades.

Re: Ask HN: How to break anxiety/fear-avoidance cycle?

#114
I've been through the same cycle for many years (I can even say decades). My recommendation is to seek help from a psychiatrist. You probably have generalized anxiety disorder and it often goes hand in hand with depression. A psychiatrist will be able to diagnose those and give you medication if you need it. She could also recommend therapy, but you need to be diagnosed first.

Unfortunately, it is very difficult to find a good mental health professional. You'll have to try many before finding a good one. Plus you will procrastinate of course. But you need to persist and make this task your priority. I know the pain you're going through, and nothing should be more important than ending the suffering right now. Once you get better you'll wish you had sought help sooner.

From my research and my experience, there are two effective treatments for anxiety and depression backed by scientific evidence: antidepressants and Cognitive Behavioral Therapy.

The other comments are well intentionned but most of them are basically asking you to change your mindset and just do it. Obviously, if it was that easy you would have done it already. Anxiety and depression don't allow you to think clearly, that's why it is extremely difficult to get out of it on your own.

Re: Ask HN: How to break anxiety/fear-avoidance cycle?

#115
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You are not trying to avoid failure, you are giving yourself a cushion to avoid confronting the fact that you may not be as good as you think that you are. ... >In reality, there is only one self, you that is choosing not to do what you have to because you are trying to protect a fragile ego. This is something that when I was growing up, we learned to deal with through sports. Sports teach kids to confront winning…

With the prevalence of player-vs-player (PvP) games with global leaderboards I'd argue that it could be the opposite, i.e. kids have a better grasp of where they stack on the larger scheme of things. I too played sports competitively as a child and that eventually fueled interest in PvP games. It was about proving one's self. In contrast, when one is limited to just academia/school, they have a poor understanding of…

PvP games are a good point, though I do think there is something different than IRL sports. Even PvP game competitions in person I think have a different level of lesson than online.

Interesting thought about global leaderboards. I wonder if they are so big, that it's easy to dismiss though. I feel like there is an optimal size in between, sort of like what's happened in sports in the past. As a kid got better, they would get moved to higher levels.

Re: Ask HN: How to break anxiety/fear-avoidance cycle?

#116
post #98

Exercise, lifting weights, running, getting more sunlight / vitamin D, going on walks in nature. Physiological changes brought about by the above can help anxiety, break you out of this cycle. Give it a try

At my highest stress moments, I've always found exercise and nature incredibly effective at resetting mental traps.

Sometimes before a task (e.g. go for a run and don't think about it at all, then immediately sit down and start after getting home) and sometimes after a task interval (e.g. get to this point, stop, go take a long run and don't think about it at all, or just lightly turn more fun aspects of the problem over in your head).

Running has the nice combination of sunlight + nature + physical exertion + dopamine.

Re: Ask HN: How to break anxiety/fear-avoidance cycle?

#117
yea this is not a easy problem to solve. And surely cannot be solved my tricks like pomodoro technique. You probably already know all the tricks like starting small, setting a timer, put your phone in slient mode ect ect. You are surely not looking for more of these.

Problem here isn't mechanical, there are literally thousands of methods and tricks all over web to overcome procrastination. Its psychological issue.

What I would say is to really think about why you really want to not do the assigments. Is it because you ultimately think benefit of school is overstated. Maybe your passions lie somewhere else at the moment but you are forced to attend school because thats what we were told to do.

Only you can solve this issue.

Re: Ask HN: How to break anxiety/fear-avoidance cycle?

#118

When you procrastinate what do you spend your time doing?

Usually ruminating about the past, worrying about the immediate/long term future, browsing mindlessly or listening to music and do everything mentioned.

Today i went for a 30minute walk after i woke up (A while i go i used to run everyday and i want to start again. That's why i walked today), then i finished a chapter from Le guin's "The dispossessed". Watched a movie and always thinking about the assignments :P

Re: Ask HN: How to break anxiety/fear-avoidance cycle?

#119
post #50

The way you describe your problem makes me think that you might need the assistance of a therapist to overcome it.

What are your thoughts on a virtual therapist (with voice control/feedback) designed for a specific mental issue?

Virtual as in AI? Never heard of such a thing to be honest. Do you have any articles on it?

Re: Ask HN: How to break anxiety/fear-avoidance cycle?

#120
The book “The Science of Stuck” by Britt Frank is the best I’ve read about this. She has an interview on the podcast You Are Not So Smart that could be a good low-effort way to think about it. It’s been incredibly helpful for me.

She reviews all of the latest and groundbreaking research about anxiety, from older therapy tactics like CBT, to how it is a physical response (eg Body Keeps the Score by van der Kolk). It’s also easy to read (ie not overly academic).

As an aside, one thing that helps me, as others have alluded to, is to “just start” and/or break things down into very small tasks to get small wins. Eg, if you have to write a paper, just open a doc to start.

Also, adopting an approach of being ok with “just good enough” or “anything is better than nothing”. I find I get stuck because I want something to be very high quality from the start, but adopting the strategy of a brain dump or “sh*t first draft”, with the intention of throwing it away, has helped immensely, as I’ve accepted the fact that my first draft will be bad, and it is iteration that makes things good.

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