You have to learn to say no to pointless meetings. It's true that there are many stupid people who will try to hold them and they have to be corrected. Usually saying "I won't contribute anything valuable and nor will I gain anything valuable, so it's not the right use of company resources" will suffice. This means that you have to develop your skills so that you are not scared of acting like that (not scared of being fired). It's ok to be fired / leave a company -- the goal is to not be scared that you can't get a better job if they fire you for pushing back about meetings.
Many software companies are a joke
111–120 of 377 posts
Re: Many software companies are a joke
#112Earlier quoted context omitted.
It is funny because people who are unemployed are shamed for being "unproductive members of society", yet when you get out into the real world, you see all of these people doing nothing and getting paid lots of money, which is even worse than being unemployed in that context. Anyway, it seems there is just a lot of money to go around and political and social favours dominate a lot of the decisions.
Free market capitalism is the least efficient allocator of work and pay, except for all the others.
Free market communism is probably more efficient, it just requires the kind of socioeconomic conditions that attract invasions from capitalists.
Re: Many software companies are a joke
#113Earlier quoted context omitted.
Author is every software engineer I hate to work with. One who thinks that code is the only truly important part of a project. It's not. "Delivering a product that solves end user needs and is as maintainable and reliable as possible" is the only truly important thing, and only some of that is code. Meetings generally aren't for developers. They're to keep everyone else involved with the project sync'd up. Do I and e…
Was he hired as a product liaison with corporate to attend meetings with clients. No. He was likely hired as a developer. Most of this should appear as requirements via his inbox not be meetings he attends unless there is a screaming problem with a request.
I've worked at a fair number of companies (as either consultant or employee) and rarely have requirements landed neatly and fully-formed in my inbox.
I'm sure it happens reliably somewhere, but I'd hazard not at most companies.
Re: Many software companies are a joke
#114Earlier quoted context omitted.
No-one ever suggested not to document! The comment I replied to says " inappropriate amount of documentation", the Agile Manifesto says " comprehensive documentation". That's the problem. Months, if not years, spent on pages after pages of comprehensive documentation that does not add any value and is obsolete by the time you start writing actual code. Lastly, the age of something is not a relevant criterion. Not muc…
> That's the problem. Months, if not years, spent on pages after pages of comprehensive documentation that does not add any value and is obsolete by the time you start writing actual code. This picture is not any real company I ever worked in or real company I heard of from friends. Literally, not even before agile manifesto. > Not much has actually changed over the last 20 years. What has changed is the explosion of…
This also glosses over something else. Comprehensive documentation can even be really well documented code!
And in small corps, there's the "guy who wrote it" was "hit by a bus" scenario. It doesn't matter how dilligent, or how faithful someone may be when they leave, eg walking a replacement through the codebase can't happen of you're dead!
This is how I document. I think about being hit by a bus, and what would this corp do? A replacement hiree do? See?
Not doing this is, IMO, should be criminal. Like a CFO not keeping books.
Re: Many software companies are a joke
#115Sometimes entrepreneurs start a company as a joke hobby while working in a coding pressure-cooker. Then a decade later end up growing up with clients in a completely different sales field.
For sure, it is easier to complain, than to take responsibility. =)
Re: Many software companies are a joke
#116Earlier quoted context omitted.
[Tangent] > And this isn't to say that some companies aren't pathologically incapable of delivering software... "isn't", "aren't", "incapable" Three back-to-back negatives have me confused. Somewhat mysteriously, I (think I) understand what it means when I read it quickly, but if I pause to think I get confused. English isn't my first language :) Update: Thanks for editing to make it clearer!
Negatives cancel, so I think you cancel the first 2 and get "this is to say that some companies are pathologically incapable of delivering software", which reads a bit nicer
Generally that works but sometimes it doesn't.
For example, some people say statements like "I don't want no towels".
What they really meant: "I don't want towels"
What I get if I cancel the negatives: "I do want towels"
The meaning flipped :)
Re: Many software companies are a joke
#117Astonishing to me that someone with 20 years' experience in any industry could have so little perspective. Obviously there are inefficiencies with big companies, but complaining about needing to do documentation, or basic project management? The writing is smug and shows no self awareness - it seems to me that the author cannot recognise that there may be other priorities than exactly what is in front of them and the…
Author is every software engineer I hate to work with. One who thinks that code is the only truly important part of a project. It's not. "Delivering a product that solves end user needs and is as maintainable and reliable as possible" is the only truly important thing, and only some of that is code. Meetings generally aren't for developers. They're to keep everyone else involved with the project sync'd up. Do I and e…
The thing is, there is absolutely a cost for all those meetings. Time spent working with stakeholders and building consensus takes away from the urgency and energy you can devote to good work.
My experience is very similar to the article's. I just draw a very different set of conclusions.
For risk averse, cost constrained, low stakes projects.
Good engineering work is neither demanded or required..
My viewpoint is simple.
Don't work on software nobody cares about.
Work on software that's doing something genuinely important.
Then people will feel obliged to cut the meetings short and be more efficient.
Re: Many software companies are a joke
#118Earlier quoted context omitted.
Author is every software engineer I hate to work with. One who thinks that code is the only truly important part of a project. It's not. "Delivering a product that solves end user needs and is as maintainable and reliable as possible" is the only truly important thing, and only some of that is code. Meetings generally aren't for developers. They're to keep everyone else involved with the project sync'd up. Do I and e…
As a developer (and sysadmin), I want to write less and less code as time passes. It's not I don't enjoy coding, on the contrary. However, I understand that a project is documentation and future planning, too. So, I want to build an artifact complete with its documentation, which can be sustainably moved forward by anyone other than me. If I don't document what I've coded, then the joy project becomes a weight on me,…
As a developer, I've been writing lots and lots of code every day for around 15 years. I write documentation quite rarely, only when it's a customer facing feature (a lot of stuff that I do is in the background where customers have no idea things are happening) or a very technical piece of code that I want future developers to understand better and keep the intended design in mind when making changes (this is much more common for me to do). Most documentation, however, can easily get stale almost as soon as it's been written, so with experience, you learn to focus on the important concepts as opposed to implementation details..
I rarely have meetings about things are not entirely technical, and I actually enjoy the meetings we have as we always come up with valid points that one alone may not have considered.
Anyway, just wanted to mention my experience as I don't agree that as you become more experienced, you tend to write less code. I am as productive now as I've ever been, even being one of the main and most experienced developers in a team of 20+.
Re: Many software companies are a joke
#119Earlier quoted context omitted.
Free market capitalism is the least efficient allocator of work and pay, except for all the others.
Free market communism is probably more efficient, it just requires the kind of socioeconomic conditions that attract invasions from capitalists.
Free market communism as in? Free market economy with communist political system and allocation?
Trying to parse your definition of the term, as it seems like any definition for communism disrupts the feedback mechanism that is a free market's primary (only?) advantage.
Re: Many software companies are a joke
#120What is this mythical concept "Business Value" which floats around undefined, unquestioned, in the impassioned rebuttals to this post?
If I can hire one person instead of ten to finish software in one third the time, even if it needs significant tweaking by the end, is that not "valuable" to my business? Please define and expand your terms.