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Pangolin desktop environment for Fuchsia and Linux written in Flutter

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Re: Pangolin desktop environment for Fuchsia and Linux written in Flutter

#111

Post by anon_123g987 »

prmoustache wrote: post #108
TonyTrapp wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your touchpad or mouse wheel doesn't tell you where you are in the document. Your touchpad or mouse wheel doesn't allow you to immediately, without any delay, go to the start or end of a document / list / etc., and Home/End keys are often not accepted by modern touch-oriented interfaces to allow for it. Neither your touchpad nor your mousewheel allow precise and quick navigation to a specific point in a long document…

I don't know a single UI accessible with a keyboard that do not accept Home/End.

In some programs those keys will move the cursor to the start/end of a line of text horizontally (text editors, web browser when you type in a form, etc.).

Re: Pangolin desktop environment for Fuchsia and Linux written in Flutter

#112

Post by vladvasiliu »

prmoustache wrote: post #102
vladvasiliu wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, in my admittedly limited experience of Windows 10, sometimes windows that look active, down to the blinking cursor, don't actually have the focus. So if all windows look the same, maybe people will get in the habit of clicking 10 times where they want to type, just to be sure. I'm thinking mostly about the UAC window asking for a password.

I don't really understand why you would want to click to have focus on a window.

Isn't that how focusing windows on Windows works? As far as I know, it doesn't have focus-follows-mouse.

Re: Pangolin desktop environment for Fuchsia and Linux written in Flutter

#113

Post by marginalia_nu »

prmoustache wrote: post #109
marginalia_nu wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there a keyboard shortcut for the ≡ menu? How do I open the bookmarks bar?

afaik ctrl+shift+b show/hide you the bookmark toolbar. I think there is none for the ≡ menu nor for settings* which is sad but most submenus are covered. I actually wish I could unmap or change the inspector menu shortcut (ctrl+shift+c) as I often use it by mistake if trying to copy/paste stuff from browser to my terminal. * I actually do ctrl+t then type pref and find preferences in the history usually instead.

Honestly, maybe I just don't get design, but if having to use a search field to find basic features in an application isn't just resignation as an interface designer, then what is?

Re: Pangolin desktop environment for Fuchsia and Linux written in Flutter

#114

Post by KronisLV »

kaladin-jasnah wrote: post #107
KronisLV wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I find window title bars to be a waste of space. Here's a possibly controversial take: why couldn't we do the opposite of mobile "notches" but for the elements of title bars that actually matter? So instead of having 20% of the window width be taken up by the title (which might as well act as a draggable window handle or allow opening window menu) and another 10% by the action buttons with 70% remaining empty, why…

Does BeOS/Haiku do something like this (screenshots at https://lowendmac.com/2001/user-interface-mac-vs-beos/ )?

Actually the elements popping out upwards is a pretty good approach as well!

Now, it might be a bit problematic when the windows are aligned with the top of the screen (in which case either the window would need to be moved or the title elements would just overlap the contents and be expanded downwards, much like tooltips would).

But yes, that's definitely one way to go about it!

Re: Pangolin desktop environment for Fuchsia and Linux written in Flutter

#116

Post by washadjeffmad »

prmoustache wrote: post #108
TonyTrapp wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your touchpad or mouse wheel doesn't tell you where you are in the document. Your touchpad or mouse wheel doesn't allow you to immediately, without any delay, go to the start or end of a document / list / etc., and Home/End keys are often not accepted by modern touch-oriented interfaces to allow for it. Neither your touchpad nor your mousewheel allow precise and quick navigation to a specific point in a long document…

I don't know a single UI accessible with a keyboard that do not accept Home/End.

Do you know that not all keyboards have home/end?

My XPS might as well not because they're placed horribly, MacBooks don't, and my Chromebook doesn't have the physical keys but maps them to hotkeys that some applications use so the behavior is inconsistent. My tablet and smartphone keyboards also don't have a way to send home/end with their native keyboards.

Re: Pangolin desktop environment for Fuchsia and Linux written in Flutter

#117

Post by ComputerGuru »

vladvasiliu wrote: post #112
prmoustache wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't really understand why you would want to click to have focus on a window.

Isn't that how focusing windows on Windows works? As far as I know, it doesn't have focus-follows-mouse.

Windows 10 oddly introduced focus-follows-mouse for scrolling (scroll wheel or touchpad) but keyboard input remains directed to the last-clicked window/element. It’s not a bad compromise (because primarily keyboard-centric users might not care where the mouse is and it lets you do things like scroll a background document for research while typing in a foreground document without losing the focus so long as you don’t click).

Re: Pangolin desktop environment for Fuchsia and Linux written in Flutter

#118

Post by ComputerGuru »

nicoburns wrote: post #99
KronisLV wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I find window title bars to be a waste of space. Here's a possibly controversial take: why couldn't we do the opposite of mobile "notches" but for the elements of title bars that actually matter? So instead of having 20% of the window width be taken up by the title (which might as well act as a draggable window handle or allow opening window menu) and another 10% by the action buttons with 70% remaining empty, why…

That's basically what apps like Chrome that have "no titlebar" (at least on macOS) do. They incorporate the title bar controls into the window itself which allows them to render other things (like tabs) on the same row.

It’s inherently non-standard/non-unified though, and requires each app designer/developer to figure out how they’re going to do it (or more likely, how they’re going to screw it up). A slim, system-provided title bar avoids all that. Seems like a small and very acceptable price.

Re: Pangolin desktop environment for Fuchsia and Linux written in Flutter

#119

Post by ComputerGuru »

prmoustache wrote: post #102
vladvasiliu wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, in my admittedly limited experience of Windows 10, sometimes windows that look active, down to the blinking cursor, don't actually have the focus. So if all windows look the same, maybe people will get in the habit of clicking 10 times where they want to type, just to be sure. I'm thinking mostly about the UAC window asking for a password.

I don't really understand why you would want to click to have focus on a window.

I don’t understand why you’d want to risk typing into the wrong window or add such a cognitive burden (“where is my pointer now?”) with every keystroke rather than have the window that receives keyboard input be very clear and consistent. At least, as a heavy keyboarder, that’s how I see it.

Re: Pangolin desktop environment for Fuchsia and Linux written in Flutter

#120

Post by webmaven »

jcelerier wrote: post #80
rishav_sharan wrote: post #63

Man, the HN crowd is tough. Folks here don't seem to like anything other than Win95 UI. I personally found the UI to be very slick and pretty. It seems very similar to Win11 and looks rather pretty. Would love to give it a try.

The Win95 UI was the result of pretty thorough formal-ish user studies. How many design iterations after that went through the same process ? Fairly close to 0 I believe.

Microsoft did a lot of usability research on Vista: https://news.microsoft.com/2007/01/29/large-scale-research-p...
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