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Russian forces invade Ukraine after Putin orders attack

reuters.com

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Re: Russian forces invade Ukraine after Putin orders attack

#111

Post by nradov »

ripvanwinkle wrote: post #32

To some extent this situation feels analogous to a street mugging happening in very slow motion The thug accosts the victim, threatens and then proceeds to assault the victim in full view of a large number of bystanders who are numerous enough to defend the victim and alter the outcome but not convicted enough to take on the inconvenience of doing so. Nevertheless all the bystanders voice words of encouragement and s…

Are you suggesting that neighboring countries should go to war to defend Ukraine? If I see a street mugging then I'll call the police but I'm not going to risk getting shot in order to intervene in a random street crime.

This is obviously a terrible situation for the Ukrainian people but at the same time they could have done a lot more to prevent it. They essentially let their military deterrent collapse years ago through a mix of corruption and apathy. If they had had a real combat effective military back in 2014 then Russia probably wouldn't have invaded in the first place.

Re: Russian forces invade Ukraine after Putin orders attack

#113

Post by mysecretaccount »

TestSIM1 wrote: post #90
mysecretaccount wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Will the people downvoting this comment mind telling me what is wrong with it? I'm not a Russian apologist, just a fan of history, and am trying to understand why so many people reject this narrative. edit: Now I am downvoted too just for asking..? This just makes me think that there is not a solid answer?

Maybe because the U.S. military isn't bombing the Ukrainian cities right now? And it wasn't the U.S.A. who sent troops to the Crimea and annexed in 2014?

My understanding is that no one (serious) is defending Russia, but claiming that Ukraine is a new battleground for the West vs. Russia and that the NATO membership proposal/the 2014 coup was antagonistic like the annexation of Crimea. What is wrong with that claim?

Of course what is happening is tragic. We can all agree it should have been avoided, and I am curious if it could have been avoided.

Re: Russian forces invade Ukraine after Putin orders attack

#114

Post by ycombinete »

In his 1997 book The Grand Chessboard Zbigniew Brzezinski did say that if Europe went to war again it would start in Ukraine.

Some choice quotes:

“Ukraine, a new and important space on the Eurasian chessboard, is a geopolitical pivot because its very existence as an independent country helps to transform Russia. Without Ukraine, Russia ceases to be a Eurasian empire.”

“However, if Moscow regains control over Ukraine, with its 52 million people and major resources as well as access to the Black Sea, Russia automatically again regains the wherewithal to become a powerful imperial state, spanning Europe and Asia.”

Re: Russian forces invade Ukraine after Putin orders attack

#116

Post by LoveGracePeace »

cglan wrote: post #3

It’s sad but my father always told me that the good times we’ve had are unprecedented and they can end faster than we think. I never believed him growing up, institutions and America seemed infallible. It’s sad to say but I think with global warming, covid, and the general decline of American soft power we’ll see more and more global turmoil My heart goes out to Ukraine and its people

No post body was provided.

Re: Russian forces invade Ukraine after Putin orders attack

#117

Post by 8note »

mc32 wrote: post #91
ripvanwinkle wrote: post #32

To some extent this situation feels analogous to a street mugging happening in very slow motion The thug accosts the victim, threatens and then proceeds to assault the victim in full view of a large number of bystanders who are numerous enough to defend the victim and alter the outcome but not convicted enough to take on the inconvenience of doing so. Nevertheless all the bystanders voice words of encouragement and s…

This is too simple. Ukraine and Russia, Orthodox and Catholics, Polish, Ukrainians and Russians have had a varied history in the proximate territories. Despite the bluster of "I'm the only one who's gone toe to toe with Putin" there is only so much anyone can do in this situation. If KSA decided to invade one of its neighbors, there is only so much anyone could do because doing anything would severely disrupt energy.…

I have a strong feeling that the US has missiles stationed in both Japan and Korea, which is about the same as putting them in Taiwan for this comparison

Re: Russian forces invade Ukraine after Putin orders attack

#119

Post by csee »

8note wrote: post #105
jacobolus wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When the thug has nuclear weapons, responses get a lot trickier.

It's possible for nuclear powered thugs to be beaten off. Just look at the Taliban. Destroying things is easy, but maintaining control is hard

US has something to lose. That logic doesn't apply to a caged animal.

Re: Russian forces invade Ukraine after Putin orders attack

#120

Post by asdff »

Kibae wrote: post #22
ginja wrote: post #6

I just woke up to this news and I'm wondering if it's possible for Apple and Google to brick all Russian phones? This would probably be more effective on their population at large than any form of sanctions.

I doubt they would do that. It would cause Apple's biggest market, China, to rethink allowing Apple and Google devices in their country.

OTOH, why does china even allow Apple or Google devices today? Because Chinese people want to purchase these products and at this point there would be pushback if they were suddenly banned.
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