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I don't think that's quite right, you own the vehicle legally and you owe the bank the loan. However as soon as a repossession takes place the legal title to the vehicle does change.
If you finance a car through a bank the bank owns the car, they have the title (US).
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Who is legally the owner when a car is repossessed? I'd say autonomous vehicles are pro-social machines. They will, in general, act to follow the rules established, ideally more often than a "dumb" car operated by a human. Given how many traffic accidents are human caused, that's sort of the point of the entire exercise.
I would argue that before it is successfully repossessed, the old person is still the owner. They'd also be the one liable if something goes wrong. So we have disconnected the liabilities of ownership from the advantages of ownership. In the past, this type of disconnect has led to companies exploiting it for profit.
You are 100% right, but that is the circumstance with loans to purchase cars independent of whether the car is autonomous. Banks do make a ton of money on the interest from car loans and they are, indeed, not liable for service or maintenance of the vehicle.
When repossession occurs, the person in possession of the car is not the owner anymore. That's why the repo man is allowed, legally, to take the car. They are transporting it to the rightful owner's place of choice.
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Well, technically, the bank owns the car till you pay it off. So, maybe they are advocating for their customers?
The bank uses title of vehicle as collateral. You own the vehicle but allow repossession for failing to clear the debt. But just because the car is repossessed doesn’t clear the debt unless the vehicle covers the debt wholly. Bank will sue for the difference.
Many people are surprised by this. They assume repossession means the loan is paid off - until they discover they've lost their car and are still on the hook for more or less the current market value.
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In the US this is legal. Banks are authorized to repossess property if you’re late on a payment^. Private companies are allowed to participate in repossession as long as they don’t break any other laws. Tesla didn’t break into the owner’s house to steal their passwords or keys, they didn’t assault the owner. All they did was take his car. They verified that they were taking the correct car. Since the repossession was…
> Private companies are allowed to participate in repossession as long as they don’t break any other laws. Why do they do this? Did the bank pay Tesla to do so? (I'm sure there must be some incentive system here).
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So…in case you plan to not pay for it but still keep it anyway? I am really struggling to understand the mindset here of what I assume are mostly well paid professional software developers. If I defaulted on a car loan (I don’t know the details exactly off the top of my head, but this entails more than just missing a payment) I’d be quite ashamed of myself and return the car myself with an apology. I cannot understan…
It has happened that cars and even homes have been "repoed" as a result due to a mistake by a bank.
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There's a difference between owning something or renting it. When you rent something, there's a contract you sign that specifies what you can and can't do. You generally expect the owner to have the technical capability to enforce the contract in case you breach it. But when you own it, then no one else should retain any sort of control over it, period. It's yours only. (You obviously don't own something if you got i…
Agreed, but with DMCA (and probably other laws) our concept of ownership is gone. Any music one buys that has DMCA, isn’t owned it’s just rented, and yet most people don’t realize that. So there’s a precedence for thinking we own something when in practice we just rent it. I can see that happening with cars. For example the law that was just passed that new cars will have to come with alcohol detectors https://www.wa…
Do you mean DRM?
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Is that state specific? I recall some banks holding liens against titles instead? I recall buying a used car where the bank lien had to be removed prior to transfer.
It could be we're not distinguishing lease vs. finance in these threads. In my experience in Massachusetts, lease titles were in a holding company's name, while financed vehicles were in my own. P.S. Looking around a bit there is a lot of variation on how this works depending on locale. So I guess lease vs. finance is just another way things can differ out there.
No doubt it would be fascinating to see how each state does it. I only have experience with a few.
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Who is legally the owner when a car is repossessed? I'd say autonomous vehicles are pro-social machines. They will, in general, act to follow the rules established, ideally more often than a "dumb" car operated by a human. Given how many traffic accidents are human caused, that's sort of the point of the entire exercise.
I would argue that before it is successfully repossessed, the old person is still the owner. They'd also be the one liable if something goes wrong. So we have disconnected the liabilities of ownership from the advantages of ownership. In the past, this type of disconnect has led to companies exploiting it for profit.
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Correct. I meant when the repossession order is issued.
This isn't how it works in the US. In the US, the car is titled to the bank until the loan is paid in full, then the bank transfers the title to you.
You are the owner, they simply have a lien on the vehicle which is noted on the title. Once you pay off the loan, they send you information to get the lien removed and a clean title.
The police should also have the capability of remotely stopping a running away car. Hopefully this feature will be standardized.
[1]: https://psmag.com/news/stalker-cop-police-protection-danger-...
[2]: https://sites.temple.edu/klugman/2020/07/20/do-40-of-police-...