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Opt Out of Cynicism

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Re: Opt Out of Cynicism

#111

Post by makeitdouble »

thrashh wrote: post #90
Barrin92 wrote: post #68

I'm pretty sure I fall into the definition of a cynic given in the piece "according to cynics, the world operates in a certain way, the elites are always the same, and will always be the same. The cynics think we are always playing the same game that has always been played. For example, a cynic may think that media’s only purpose is to sells your attention to advertisers - like I did here. And often they might be rig…

IMO cynicism is not a problem on an individual level. It’s when the group has a lot of cynics is when we have a problem. Have you ever had to work with a group of “low energy” people? They’re not only just low energy — they’re energy vampires.

Wouldn’t it also be applicable to a lot of intrinsically problematic situations ?

For instance if you had to direct an “employees right” course in a strongly anti-union company, you’d have “low energy” people looking at you with dead eyes, and you’d be complaining they suck your energy too. But is it really a problem outside of the scope of your course ?

Re: Opt Out of Cynicism

#112

Post by GhettoComputers »

guerrilla wrote: post #110

I don't think I share the author's definition of cynicism. For me, it's more like the opposite of naïveté. Meanwhile, I also consider myself an optimist about the big picture and the long-term. I just think everyone is self-interested while I subscribe to political realism (i.e. everything is power dynamics) and pragmatism (i.e. evaluation depends on purpose.) It's just that I think that can all be true and things ca…

>political realism (i.e. everything is power dynamics)

Can you explain how that doesn't apply to everything else? I see every interaction as power dynamics.

I agree with your points and your ideas, are you saying that not being naive, you are cynical because its an accurate model of reality, like the slippery slope "fallacy"

The article seems to say that we should change our models when its useful to, instead of rationalizing it, the challenge seems like something worth trying though. We need to be delusional sometimes, its useful too.

Re: Opt Out of Cynicism

#113

Post by guerrilla »

GhettoComputers wrote: post #112
guerrilla wrote: post #110

I don't think I share the author's definition of cynicism. For me, it's more like the opposite of naïveté. Meanwhile, I also consider myself an optimist about the big picture and the long-term. I just think everyone is self-interested while I subscribe to political realism (i.e. everything is power dynamics) and pragmatism (i.e. evaluation depends on purpose.) It's just that I think that can all be true and things ca…

>political realism (i.e. everything is power dynamics) Can you explain how that doesn't apply to everything else? I see every interaction as power dynamics. I agree with your points and your ideas, are you saying that not being naive, you are cynical because its an accurate model of reality, like the slippery slope " fallacy " The article seems to say that we should change our models when its useful to, instead of ra…

I think it does apply to "everything" else. I'd also add I think those interactions are more than power dynamics too. I think you'd agree, I just wanted to be clear.

Yes, I see it as a spectrum with naïveté and cynicism as the extremes as far as a descriptive framework of how the world works and I think I'm near the latter extreme in my definition of it.

Yes, that's why I said defaulting to distrust and skepticism. One should always allow the possibility to be convinced otherwise. There's no way to build relationships or really get anything done otherwise.

Re: Opt Out of Cynicism

#114

Post by LesZedCB »

d--b wrote: post #94

The article mistakes nihilism for cynicism. It’s kind of obvious that a nihilist doesn’t want to effect change in society. It’s not true at all of cynics. In fact, most people who influence large scale change display some degree of cynicism. Now the article also equals cynicism with “people who complain”, which is also incorrect. Really what the OP means is “if you want to change society you shouldn’t be a nihilistic…

i suspect many nihilists learned from Nietzsche, who's concept of "will to power" is quite contrary to "doesn't want to effect change in society"

Re: Opt Out of Cynicism

#115

Post by drewcoo »

rewq4321 wrote: post #95
Barrin92 wrote: post #68

I'm pretty sure I fall into the definition of a cynic given in the piece "according to cynics, the world operates in a certain way, the elites are always the same, and will always be the same. The cynics think we are always playing the same game that has always been played. For example, a cynic may think that media’s only purpose is to sells your attention to advertisers - like I did here. And often they might be rig…

I think there's a general failure of communication here, and throughout the current social discourse on "cynicism". There's a sort of false trichotomy at play in this post, and on Twitter I've noticed a dichotomous version: "Should we be happy that we're improving, or sad that there's so far to go?" (That's my summary of it, anyway) Why not both? We should appreciate how far things have come (it is truely astounding)…

Call me cynical, but I think the communication here is just virtue signaling. Both the content of the message and the act of displaying it.

Re: Opt Out of Cynicism

#116

Post by GhettoComputers »

guerrilla wrote: post #113
GhettoComputers wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>political realism (i.e. everything is power dynamics) Can you explain how that doesn't apply to everything else? I see every interaction as power dynamics. I agree with your points and your ideas, are you saying that not being naive, you are cynical because its an accurate model of reality, like the slippery slope " fallacy " The article seems to say that we should change our models when its useful to, instead of ra…

I think it does apply to "everything" else. I'd also add I think those interactions are more than power dynamics too. I think you'd agree, I just wanted to be clear. Yes, I see it as a spectrum with naïveté and cynicism as the extremes as far as a descriptive framework of how the world works and I think I'm near the latter extreme in my definition of it. Yes, that's why I said defaulting to distrust and skepticism. O…

I think the sad thing is that like the article said, we fall into those patterns because we see it all too commonly, and because negative information travels faster, its easy to etch that into our brains. Its useful to be delusional, a lot of new business owners are and some even make it despite the odds! One example is marijuana legalization, amazing how fast its gone, if someone told me that I would be able to put an 8th of weed into a cartridge, buy it for $20 and it not to have a smell in a few years I would call them insane. Good things are happening, and like you said things can get better (depending on your measurement of better), but not being naive is often the more useful action, although there are times I dived into something hoping for the best, it not working out most of the time, but the times it did, I don't regret it. In the US I saw Oregon decriminalize drugs, and as a trend I would hope to see more of that and I am going to be more optimistic about that occuring.

I think its best summed up as I regret not doing things rather than trying and not succeeding, as long as (like you said) it was a pragmatic risk.

Re: Opt Out of Cynicism

#118

Post by louhike »

Isn’t it cynicism (or idealism) just a survival strategy which happens because of your experiences? I know I tend to be more cynical than most of my peers but I always attributed that to growing up in poverty unlike them. Sometimes it seems a lot of people think others can apply their way of thinking or seeing the world and it will make their life instantly better. But I don’t think it can happen if they don’t live in the right context.

Re: Opt Out of Cynicism

#119

Post by [deleted] »

cristoperb wrote: post #74
evrydayhustling wrote: post #21

Another good quote for the OP is Miguel De Cervantes, author if Don Quixote: "there is madness in too much sanity, and the greatest madness of all is to see things as they are instead of as they should be". He would know: Cervantes killed a rival on a duel at 17 and fled to sea. They were attacked by pirates and he fought well before getting his hand blown off and taken prisoner. He lived in captivity but befriended…

> The point of this story is not that cynics were wrong but that one never would have survived his ordeal It's interesting you'd use that story to make your point because about 2,000 years earlier Diogenes, the founder of Cynicism, was supposedly captured by pirates on the Mediterranean and sold into slavery. Not only did he survive but the man who purchased him was so impressed that he appointed him to run his house…

[deleted]

Re: Opt Out of Cynicism

#120

Post by hnzix »

iratewizard wrote: post #86
Barrin92 wrote: post #68

I'm pretty sure I fall into the definition of a cynic given in the piece "according to cynics, the world operates in a certain way, the elites are always the same, and will always be the same. The cynics think we are always playing the same game that has always been played. For example, a cynic may think that media’s only purpose is to sells your attention to advertisers - like I did here. And often they might be rig…

Cynicism is a form of having outcome independence. I can only change what is in my control. The forces of zealots, the paranoid, the corrupt, sociopaths, and benevolent dictators will keep swarming around in a cacophony until long after I'm dead. I choose to let it ruin my day on a regular basis, or I can find inner happiness.

Isn't that Stoicism though?
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