Tesla Update Allows Video Games While Driving, and the Feds Aren’t Happy • Hacker News Board

Re: Tesla Update Allows Video Games While Driving, and the Feds Aren’t Happy

#111

Post by kiba » Thu, Dec 09, 2021, 5:11 PM UTC

can16358p wrote: post #45

ghaff wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't need to be perfect but it needs to be a lot better than the "average" driver which includes intoxicated, fatigued, young, old, etc. drivers in all sorts of weather with many older vehicles with fewer safety systems and possible maintenance issues.

While I agree with you, it brings the moral/legal dilemma about who is responsible when FSD kills someone. I'd love to see all cars being on FSD and communicating with each other around, dropping deaths (and even minor accidents) to virtually zero though.

The better solution is just to get rid of car and use trains and bikes more. Trains don't require FSD and yet they're incredibly safe.

FSD exists only because we built our entire society around cars.

Re: Tesla Update Allows Video Games While Driving, and the Feds Aren’t Happy

#112

Post by throwaway413 » Thu, Dec 09, 2021, 5:16 PM UTC

Retric wrote: post #105

throwaway413 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, I agree with that, but you said: > So not only where they selling at 35k for a while, in real terms they still are. And I’m just saying no, because if they want to say they are still selling a $35k car, it needs to be priced $35k today. Sure, they started with a $35k car, but it is no longer the case. I haven’t suddenly increased my car budget from $35k to $40k in the last 4 years, regardless of inflation, beca…

if they want to say They aren’t advertising a 35k car today, but this feels like beating a dead horse so I will drop it. inflation != income growth. That’s a fair point, but it really means you have taken a pay cut over the last few years. Without inflation that same pay cut would have meant you couldn’t afford a 35k car, so blame whoever you’re working for not Tesla. Though if it’s something other than a shitty empl…

Oh you’re totally correct here, that is definitely a pay cut against inflation - fortunately not the case for me, just expressing this opinion, thanks for your kindness there.

I am indeed beating the dead horse here, but I guess what I’m trying to say is, I really wish there was an even cheaper model, because $35k/$40k seems to be right at that point of pushing the budget of a budget car into luxury territory, and not truly giving consumers what they want, a base model. Sorry if I’m not being clear, a bit hard to explain.

But that’s not Tesla’s problem, just an issue of the economics of the industry at this point. Hoping we see that significant drop in cost as battery tech evolves.

Re: Tesla Update Allows Video Games While Driving, and the Feds Aren’t Happy

#113

Post by hunterb123 » Thu, Dec 09, 2021, 5:16 PM UTC

FridayoLeary wrote: post #74

tiffanyh wrote: post #7

This is a known tactic by Elon. He does something that is so incredibly outrageous knowing it will get denied but in doing so, it pushes your mental anchor so far out, that it allows him to "meet in the middle" to get something approved that would not have been approved otherwise if he hadn't anchored you so far out.

I don't get this. What's so incredibly outrageous about enabling a game to be played while driving? Why on earth would Elon give two hoots wether or not his games are being played while driving? I think tesla just decided that disabling the game feature while the car is in motion is not necessary because why can't the passenger play. There's nothing outrageous about Tersla not nannying the driver. Anyway, there are i…

This is a known tactic by alarmists, create an emotional reaction that doesn't match reality. Double down on that alternative reality.

Seems to happen on all Tesla related news, people get so worked up about him.

Re: Tesla Update Allows Video Games While Driving, and the Feds Aren’t Happy

#114

Post by tbabb » Thu, Dec 09, 2021, 5:19 PM UTC

fiddlerwoaroof wrote: post #73

tbabb wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla autopilot use nowhere near competitive with a human driver, no matter what they claim. I'm bullish on self-driving in general, but Tesla's misrepresentation of their self-driving capability has always been just shy of "fraud".

This is true of surface streets: on freeways, even the older “Autopilot” is pretty good: I’ve driven on-ramp to off-ramp like 60 miles without a disengagement.

> 60 miles

To match a human, it needs to go half a million miles without an accident, and 100 million miles without a fatality.

Re: Tesla Update Allows Video Games While Driving, and the Feds Aren’t Happy

#115

Post by wumpus » Thu, Dec 09, 2021, 5:21 PM UTC

colordrops wrote: post #87

sgustard wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a feature of many Tesla games. Now imagine your steering wheel stops steering the car due to a bug when your passenger fires up a game.

It has the opposite problem. They intentionally don't disable steering while using the wheel to control the video game. The result is that your tires get ground down with a pile of black rubber dust on your driveway. I don't let the kids use the steering wheel for fear of destroying the tires. I would be surprised if it is possible to disconnect the steering from the mechanical steering mechanism.

Tesla doesn't have any "drive by wire" cars, the steering has a mechanical linkage.

Re: Tesla Update Allows Video Games While Driving, and the Feds Aren’t Happy

#116

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Dec 09, 2021, 5:26 PM UTC

literallyWTF wrote: post #64

ars wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is absolutely nothing outrageous about this. There's nothing wrong with the passenger playing a game. There are plenty of other distractions in the world, if you can't stop yourself from looking at a screen while driving, you shouldn't be driving in the first place. It's not the job of the car to stop you.

I spent like 5 minutes trying to phrase my thoughts into words but I kept coming back to: “are you fucking serious?”

[deleted]

Re: Tesla Update Allows Video Games While Driving, and the Feds Aren’t Happy

#117

Post by throwaway946513 » Thu, Dec 09, 2021, 5:29 PM UTC

darknavi wrote: post #103

throwaway946513 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My personal issue with this idea is that cars - presently, are driven by humans, and while we can look to the future, the present necessitates that we design by these standards. Cars are methods of transportation (and even though I'm a car enthusiast, who enjoys driving) they should be driver focused. The center screen in a Tesla is where _all_ the information is available for the driver. There are no secondary gauge…

> The center screen in a Tesla is where _all_ the information is available for the driver. There are no secondary gauges or other driver-specific controls or displays. That's not true for the S & X FYI, they have an instrument cluster. > The car, presently, should be oriented for the driver to pay the most attention to the vehicle, the road, and their surroundings. Games don't cover the psudo instrument cluster on th…

Even if they don't cover the instrument cluster or the pseudo cluster, the screen is the main interface for the driver. Even though the passenger may interact with the display, the mandatory functions of the car and even required secondary functions are built into the display and thus it would result in a primary usecase for the driver.

Drivers don't need more distracting nonsense in their main line-of-sight.

My main response was towards the 3 & Y, but the S & X still use the center display for secondary functions with the driver.

Re: Tesla Update Allows Video Games While Driving, and the Feds Aren’t Happy

#118

Post by dragontamer » Thu, Dec 09, 2021, 5:29 PM UTC

r00fus wrote: post #81

dragontamer wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Where would we be without Tesla succeeding? Hydrogen Fuel Cells and probably more widespread PHEVs. Which would have been a superior future than where we are today. 10-million cars with 200lbs of Li-ion batteries each would save more energy from our transportation network than 2-million cars with 1000lbs of Li-ion batteries each. ------ At this point. Elon is incredibly anti-progress. He's switched into fighting ag…

Fuel Cells are the scam. The cheapest way to make hydrogen fuel is through fracking. It's dirty under the top-level. So it's "no emissions" but still relies on the planet-killing petroleum fuel chain. If you think PHEVs are somehow constrained by EVs - you have no idea of the patent forests Toyota and others have built on hybrid tech. It's not the lithium that's stopping PHEVs.

And the cheapest source of electricity is coal. So its not like your EV-powered vehicle (largely using coal to power itself) is much better.

In any case, widespread electrolysis of Hydrogen is well researched and well on its way to being achieved: https://www.energy.gov/eere/fuelcells/hydrogen-production-el...

There was a good article or two on some systems developed that were direct from solar-power into hydrogen, skipping the inefficient electricity steps.

Re: Tesla Update Allows Video Games While Driving, and the Feds Aren’t Happy

#119

Post by buffington » Thu, Dec 09, 2021, 5:31 PM UTC

ars wrote: post #42

tiffanyh wrote: post #7

This is a known tactic by Elon. He does something that is so incredibly outrageous knowing it will get denied but in doing so, it pushes your mental anchor so far out, that it allows him to "meet in the middle" to get something approved that would not have been approved otherwise if he hadn't anchored you so far out.

There is absolutely nothing outrageous about this. There's nothing wrong with the passenger playing a game. There are plenty of other distractions in the world, if you can't stop yourself from looking at a screen while driving, you shouldn't be driving in the first place. It's not the job of the car to stop you.

But you do need to look at the screen while driving. It's the thing I like the least about my Model 3, since the screen isn't directly in the line of sight.

All the instrumentation of a traditional car are on the one Model 3 screen.

Want to know your speed? You need to look down and to the right (or left, depending on which side the driver sits). Getting too cold? You need to look down, carefully tap on the bottom edge of the screen, hope you hit the correct pixels to bump the temp up.

Critical, time sensitive, alerts also appear on the screen. As do totally useless alerts. What are those warning sounds for? Look down at the screen. It's telling you that you're about to drift out of your lane and should correct yourself. Warning sounds again. Look down at the screen. Neat. It's telling me my premium connectivity trial has expired as I'm merging onto a busy freeway during rush hour.

Traditional car UIs aren't designed on a whim. Physical controls are designed to be usable without looking at them. Critical information is visible without needing to look away from the road.

I love the car. I hate the screen. I hate that fanboys see it as "advanced", when I suspect it was used because it's a lot cheaper to build a software UI than a physical one.

Re: Tesla Update Allows Video Games While Driving, and the Feds Aren’t Happy

#120

Post by dragontamer » Thu, Dec 09, 2021, 5:33 PM UTC

kiba wrote: post #95

dragontamer wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Where would we be without Tesla succeeding? Hydrogen Fuel Cells and probably more widespread PHEVs. Which would have been a superior future than where we are today. 10-million cars with 200lbs of Li-ion batteries each would save more energy from our transportation network than 2-million cars with 1000lbs of Li-ion batteries each. ------ At this point. Elon is incredibly anti-progress. He's switched into fighting ag…

Hydrogen Fuel Cells and probably more widespread PHEVs. I am unconvinced by the case for hydrogen fuel cells or PHEVs. 10-million cars with 200lbs of Li-ion batteries each would save more energy from our transportation network than 2-million cars with 1000lbs of Li-ion batteries each. The correct answer is the reduction of cars. Taking 10 million cars off the road and switching to public transit and higher density su…

Mr. Musk was pretty integral in his role of killing the California High Speed Rail project.

He created a fake solution, the Hyperloop, to steal hype away, and then never built the Hyperloop. Thereby killing the mass-transit solution of California.

------

I stand by my assertion. Mr. Musk is no longer useful for the environmental cause. He is decidedly anti-progress at this point. A few years ago it was somewhat ambiguous, but now its clear.