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Is the four-day workweek finally within our grasp?

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Re: Is the four-day workweek finally within our grasp?

#111

Post by chiefalchemist »

mlyle wrote: post #26
AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #6

I'm currently working for a company that forces office staff to work a half day on christmas eve with the additional stipulation, of course, that you must burn a full day of vacation to skip it. This despite the fact that no one in the company can ever remember a customer calling on christmas eve. So I'm very skeptical that this trend will grow. It took the IWW to get us the concepts of The Weekend and Sick Days, and…

I personally believe that the government should focus on a shorter workweek rather than minimum wage increases in the near term. If we shorten the nominal workweek to 36 hours before overtime is required (and encourage this to be in the form of 4x9 or 9/2 * 8): * Supply of labor will fall, increasing equilibrium pay for everyone * Everyone's quality of life goes up * Traffic and environmental impacts from commuting s…

I'm on a 40 hrs one week, 32 hrs the next. That yields every other Friday off. If I get a pronotion / pay increase I'm gonba try to opt for 32 hrs every week.

> Everyone's quality of life goes up

Ideally, yes. But for those who struggle in various ways the extra free time could be dangerous. I'm definitely in favor of a shorter work week. But there are always unintended consequences.

For example I live in NJ. As the pandemic lockdown kicked off so did the adverts for gambling via your mobile device. I'm not in favor of the Nanny State but I can't help but wonder how many ppl are nursing an addiction and associated debt from this intersection.

Re: Is the four-day workweek finally within our grasp?

#112

Post by ethbr0 »

mlyle wrote: post #100
dv_dt wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We should consider thinking of those jobs not as lowest skill, but jobs where the workers have the lowest negotiating power.

They go hand in hand. Why do the workers have the lowest negotiating power in these jobs? It's because they are the most easily replaced and the net benefit from employing them is smallest. [There are some edge cases, where a field is swamped from people doing the job for the love of it... But this is not the typical case.]

Isn't the whole point of the minimum wage that the federal / state / local governments are the negotiator of last resort?

I.e. people with minimum wage jobs would be paid even less, but for the government using its power to negotiate for them

Re: Is the four-day workweek finally within our grasp?

#114

Post by datavirtue »

trcarney wrote: post #72
jedberg wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In an ideal spherical cow world, having no minimum wage would work exactly as you describe. In the real world, that's you how get slavery. For many reasons, not everyone has a choice to turn down a $1/hr job.

I don't understand how people hold your view. Would you except a $1/hr job? No, then why do you think other people would. If you can make more money walking through a parking lot picking up change, why would you work. Plus companies wouldn't want to hire at $1/hr because what kind of employee are you getting? Your competitor down the street paying more money would then get the better employees and drive you out of bu…

This is the very reason unions exist. To protect all workers from the bad deal that other workers will accept. You have little appreciation for how much people can undervalue themselves. It is enough to where people think working at an Amazon warehouse for $15 an hour is a good deal. Sounds like a great deal for Amazon and Walmart. The workers making that wage don't know that it's a bad deal. Same way people pull out money from thier retirement accounts to buy cars "because they don't want a payment." Dumb personal choice.

Re: Is the four-day workweek finally within our grasp?

#115

Post by DoingIsLearning »

frontman1988 wrote: post #80

I would rather have a 6 day work week with 2 months of paid holidays every year. There isn't much you can do on a 3 day break that you can't do in a 1 day or 2 day break. But a month long break and you can do crazy stuff like hiking in Papua New Guinea or sailing across an ocean.

Why trade away your year for 2 months?

40 hour per week with 40 days PTO is not very common but in larger companies in Europe is not unheard of specially for senior ICs.

Re: Is the four-day workweek finally within our grasp?

#116

Post by stronglikedan »

driverdan wrote: post #102
AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #6

I'm currently working for a company that forces office staff to work a half day on christmas eve with the additional stipulation, of course, that you must burn a full day of vacation to skip it. This despite the fact that no one in the company can ever remember a customer calling on christmas eve. So I'm very skeptical that this trend will grow. It took the IWW to get us the concepts of The Weekend and Sick Days, and…

Why would you expect to get Christmas eve off? It's not a holiday and not everyone celebrates Christmas.

I don't see where OP expected to get it off because it was a holiday. They expect to get it off because no work gets done, and they're annoyed because the company requires double the vacation time for those that do want it off for the holiday. Finally, Christmas Eve is definitely as much of a holiday as Christmas Day, for those who celebrate it.

Re: Is the four-day workweek finally within our grasp?

#117

Post by mlyle »

ethbr0 wrote: post #112
mlyle wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They go hand in hand. Why do the workers have the lowest negotiating power in these jobs? It's because they are the most easily replaced and the net benefit from employing them is smallest. [There are some edge cases, where a field is swamped from people doing the job for the love of it... But this is not the typical case.]

Isn't the whole point of the minimum wage that the federal / state / local governments are the negotiator of last resort? I.e. people with minimum wage jobs would be paid even less, but for the government using its power to negotiate for them

> Isn't the whole point of the minimum wage that the federal / state / local governments are the negotiator of last resort?

Yes. And it's a necessary thing to have.

On the other hand... if someone is doing work that returns $15.50/hour on average to the business, and is employed at $10/hour, raising the minimum wage to $15/hour doesn't get that person a raise: it gets them laid off.

The things that IMO really help the fundamentals are:

* Raising the demand for low-skill labor (e.g. economic growth above productivity improvements)

* Raising the average skill level of the workforce, and/or

* Reducing the supply of labor.

Re: Is the four-day workweek finally within our grasp?

#118

Post by trcarney »

DwnVoteHoneyPot wrote: post #92
trcarney wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand how people hold your view. Would you except a $1/hr job? No, then why do you think other people would. If you can make more money walking through a parking lot picking up change, why would you work. Plus companies wouldn't want to hire at $1/hr because what kind of employee are you getting? Your competitor down the street paying more money would then get the better employees and drive you out of bu…

> Its because they want to attract the best talent. When we are talking about minimum wage, you need to consider the people with the worst talent. Think sweatshops in China, construction camps in Dubai, prostitutes in the US. Not Google or Facebook employees.

Yes but you want the best of your labor pool.

As for sweatshops in China, these are the growing pains of a developing economy. The work conditions there suck but I bet they are better than being bent over in a rice field all day. You are also rapidly seeing this change as the economy becomes more developed there, even in the face of an oppressive government.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/china-is-working-its-way-up-fro...

The construction camps in Dubai is about government corruption. They lure in overseas workers then take away their passports so they can't leave. Not exactly a free labor market.

Again prostitution in the US is not a free labor market because of government interference. If you go to places where prostitution is legal, the girls there make pretty good money.

Most of the areas where you can point to the worst employment situations is because of government interference in a market place.

Re: Is the four-day workweek finally within our grasp?

#119

Post by smithza »

bradjohnson wrote: post #67
Tarsul wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and less than 20% in net income lost (due to income taxes usually being progressive).

Why should there be any loss in income?

If you negotiate with management to go from 40 hrs a week to 32 hrs a week, there is usually an expectation you will take a 20% paycut. Parent was saying that since income taxes are tiered, you will likely take a < 20% take-home paycut.

Re: Is the four-day workweek finally within our grasp?

#120

Post by [deleted] »

twalla wrote: post #83
austinl wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the opposite end of the spectrum, the company I work for shuts our offices down from the 24th to the 2nd. Engineers submit availability for on-call schedules, and get a gift card for each on-call day they're responsible for. I feel very spoiled, but I think this is generally a trend amongst west-coast tech companies? I've had a similar experience at previous places, and it seemed like the rationale for the holiday…

The real rationale is to remove a metric shitton of accrued PTO from their books if paying out PTO on employee departure is something the company does.

[deleted]
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