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“The NFT Bay” Shares Multi-Terabyte Archive of ‘Pirated’ NFTs

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Re: “The NFT Bay” Shares Multi-Terabyte Archive of ‘Pirated’ NFTs

#111

Post by imgabe »

efdee wrote: post #101
imgabe wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does it mean to own something? It what sense does a Moon share give you any ownership over any part of the moon? If someone else goes up to the Moon and builds a lunar base on "your" piece of the Moon, does your Moon share give you any way to stop them? Can you sue them in any court? Does it prevent anyone in any way from doing whatever they want with that piece of the Moon? No, it doesn't. Contrast with a token…

The blockchain equates to the Moon Shares company. Outside of the company/blockchain, the ownership means nothing.

Outside of the blockchain, a token on the blockchain means nothing. Outside of the Moon company, a piece of the moon is still a real thing that means something. You can only "own" a physical object if you either have sufficient physical force to assert your ownership of it or the government recognizes your ownership and will exert force on your behalf to assert it.

Neither of those are necessary for the blockchain because nobody can assert ownership of the blockchain tokens without the private keys to your wallet.

Re: “The NFT Bay” Shares Multi-Terabyte Archive of ‘Pirated’ NFTs

#112

Post by XorNot »

xvector wrote: post #78
xondono wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Although this is totally different, because it’s blockchain. Except the blockchain only keeps the url, so the “content” doesn’t get any of the properties of the blockchain

Incorrect, often NFTs contain the hash of the content, where the content itself is pinned to IPFS. That said, tokens that are not pinned to IPFS are fucking worthless, and it's hard to tell whether an NFT is pinned to IPFS unless you're skilled at navigating Ethereum contacts.

IPFS drops content that's not seeded. Unless you have a backup, you're not going to be able to recover a matching file.

Re: “The NFT Bay” Shares Multi-Terabyte Archive of ‘Pirated’ NFTs

#113

Post by 5560675260 »

GDC7 wrote: post #76
Vetch wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NFTs are probably best thought of as a recapitulation of status goods into the digital world, outside video games. The physical good versions has never made sense to me either. Thorstein Veblen already in the late 1800s had pointed out that an object's utility as a status signal increases in tandem with its uselessness. The object must then also be recognized among peers as difficult to obtain. For the moon shares an…

> NFTs are probably best thought of as a recapitulation of status goods into the digital world Status cannot be manufactured, it spurs naturally due to having rare things such as a big mansion, grammys, academy awards, winning the Super Bowl , winning the NBA title, winning the World Series etc. All those things are both rare and cannot be copied. NFTs instead are easily copied idividually (right click) or even in bu…

> NFTs instead are easily copied idividually (right click) or even in bulk as this torrent file proves.

No, you're copying a piece of media that NFT links to. What you're not copying is a verifiable claim of spending unreasonable amount of ETH to have a record in blockchain pointing to that piece of media.

Re: “The NFT Bay” Shares Multi-Terabyte Archive of ‘Pirated’ NFTs

#114

Post by detaro »

lottin wrote: post #105
detaro wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But just because you have the ability to download something from the internet doesn't mean you have the same rights to it as someone who has given some kind of license to it (which is often attached to NFT sales).

A license to download some content that is otherwise publicly accessible? At any rate, copyright licenses cannot be enforced with smart contracts, because smart contracts cannot stop members of the public from making unauthorised copies. Copyright licenses can only be enforced by entities that have coercive power over individuals, e.g. courts of justice, but then the whole NFT becomes redundant because owning the NFT…

There are more types of rights than "the right to download", I didn't say anything about that.

> At any rate, copyright licenses cannot be enforced with smart contracts

Wasn't claimed either. Why do people keep inventing claims to then criticize them? (I'm not even into NFTs, don't own any and don't plan to, but a lot of the reaction is just bizarre. No, they don't magically enforce copyright. No, they also aren't supposed to.)

Re: “The NFT Bay” Shares Multi-Terabyte Archive of ‘Pirated’ NFTs

#115

Post by imgabe »

mewse wrote: post #108
imgabe wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does it mean to own something? It what sense does a Moon share give you any ownership over any part of the moon? If someone else goes up to the Moon and builds a lunar base on "your" piece of the Moon, does your Moon share give you any way to stop them? Can you sue them in any court? Does it prevent anyone in any way from doing whatever they want with that piece of the Moon? No, it doesn't. Contrast with a token…

> It what sense does a Moon share give you any ownership over any part of the moon? If someone else goes up to the Moon and builds a lunar base on "your" piece of the Moon, does your Moon share give you any way to stop them? In what sense does a Token give you any ownership over any part of the image? If someone does a copy&paste operation and starts selling "your" image on a t-shirt, does your NFT give you any way t…

You don't need to stop them. You don't own an image, you own a token. People can copy the image all they want, that doesn't give them ownership of the token.

I can go to the Louvre and take a picture of the Mona Lisa. That doesn't mean I own the Mona Lisa.

Re: “The NFT Bay” Shares Multi-Terabyte Archive of ‘Pirated’ NFTs

#116

Post by Vetch »

Azsy wrote: post #70
Vetch wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NFTs are probably best thought of as a recapitulation of status goods into the digital world, outside video games. The physical good versions has never made sense to me either. Thorstein Veblen already in the late 1800s had pointed out that an object's utility as a status signal increases in tandem with its uselessness. The object must then also be recognized among peers as difficult to obtain. For the moon shares an…

I don't think the comparison holds well enough. The vast majority is in it in the hopes to get richer. its closer to tulip mania with a 'distributed' MLM pyramid scheme twist.

You're completely correct that over-exuberance, gambles and scams are playing a large role in the amount of money flowing. It is unclear whether the current level of openness compared to the usually highly elitist gate kept artworld will persist.

There is nonetheless a clear mapping to physical art world collections in terms of owning a rare work by a skilled artist and having it connected to some trusted proof representing a unique transaction with that artist.

Re: “The NFT Bay” Shares Multi-Terabyte Archive of ‘Pirated’ NFTs

#117

Post by imgabe »

UncleMeat wrote: post #102
imgabe wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does it mean to own something? It what sense does a Moon share give you any ownership over any part of the moon? If someone else goes up to the Moon and builds a lunar base on "your" piece of the Moon, does your Moon share give you any way to stop them? Can you sue them in any court? Does it prevent anyone in any way from doing whatever they want with that piece of the Moon? No, it doesn't. Contrast with a token…

And my moon certificate proves that I own that part of the moon. Control over transfer is not the same as control over other uses.

It doesn't prove that you own part of the moon at all. The moon is a physical object. To own it, you need to be able to prevent other people from using it, or have an authority that can do so recognize your ownership and do that on your behalf. The Moon shares don't do that. The NFT on the blockchain does prevent other people from using that NFT without your authorization.

Re: “The NFT Bay” Shares Multi-Terabyte Archive of ‘Pirated’ NFTs

#118

Post by detaro »

GDC7 wrote: post #99
detaro wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But just because you have the ability to download something from the internet doesn't mean you have the same rights to it as someone who has given some kind of license to it (which is often attached to NFT sales).

And how is the licence enforced? Is it recognized by the law? Can people sue those who fail to comply with it? You can do all the circular reasoning you want but at the end of the day everything is backed by violence and coercitive power. That's why nations have army/navy , to make other countries know that what they say carries weight because they can back it up with bullets and bombs, not just words.

... yes, licenses still rely on copyright law, well spotted. Is that supposed to be surprising or a novel insight?

Re: “The NFT Bay” Shares Multi-Terabyte Archive of ‘Pirated’ NFTs

#119

Post by imgabe »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #109
capableweb wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Authority on the blockchain is validated by a bunch of different actors, none who trust each other but reaches consensus anyways. Authority within the moon share ecosystem is validated only by the people who own the company.

That might matter in a niche case where the ownership of my moon share database entry is in dispute. (And each system has positives and negatives, blockchains aren't a strict upgrade.) But the potential authority over the actual moon is the same under both systems.

Ownership only ever matters when there's a dispute. If you go build a house on a piece of land, and nobody ever comes along and disputes whether you own that land, does it matter whether you do or not? I mean, we even built into our laws that if you do that and nobody disputes it for long enough, then you get to officially own the land.

Re: “The NFT Bay” Shares Multi-Terabyte Archive of ‘Pirated’ NFTs

#120

Post by lottin »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #82
manigandham wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's true, it's just another medium of execution via cryptographic signatures exposed as on-chain tokens. The legal foundation is still being figured out (mostly due to transparency and global jurisdiction issues) but there is something unique about having a much more programmable system. It's like DocuSign + APIs + banking + decentralized security and governance all rolled into one, and I think societal and econom…

> It's like DocuSign + APIs + banking + decentralized security and governance all rolled into one, and I think societal and economic changes will catch up to make this new system of transactions much more valuable. What makes you think that? When I see that the people that are the most invested aren't bothering to tie any real rights to the NFTs, that's a really bad sign. Blockchains are also pretty bad at banking in…

Yeah, blockchains are incompatible with exercising coercive power, and it turns out without coercive power there are not that many useful things you can do. For example, enforcing a copyright license, or a loan agreement, requires coercive power.
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