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Austria makes Covid19 vaccination mandatory as of Feb 2022

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Re: Austria makes Covid19 vaccination mandatory as of Feb 2022

#111

Post by sleavey »

66fm472tjy7 wrote: post #56

I would have preferred giving lower priority in hospitals to voluntarily unvaccinated persons seeking COVID treatment. That would require no violation of personal freedoms and avoid the great economic cost of implementing a lockdown at the start of the touristic winter season at the cost of letting these people suffer the consequences of their belief that the vaccine is more dangerous than the disease.

While we're at it, let's give lower priority to obese, smokers, alcoholics... or let's not. It's a slippery slope to start discriminating against people based on whether the admitting staff think they're worthy of treatment or not. We're better than that.

Re: Austria makes Covid19 vaccination mandatory as of Feb 2022

#112

Post by malermeister »

jmnicolas wrote: post #110
malermeister wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you're suggesting basically comes down to mitigation , which we've been having a lot of issues with. I think what we actually need is a solution , so there's nothing left to mitigate. Imo mandatory vaccinations might be just that.

The vaccine isn't efficient enough. Look at Gibraltar: 99% are vaccinated and they're still cancelling Christmas celebrations.

Vaccination isn't a binary state. Protection wanes over time. I don't know where to get the data, but I'd guess that most people in Gibraltar have been vaccinated quite a while ago.

Maybe we need tighter schedules, i.e. one shot every two months? With delta, i think that's when effectiveness starts to wane.

Re: Austria makes Covid19 vaccination mandatory as of Feb 2022

#113

Post by tomp »

pretzelhands wrote: post #20

As an Austrian I'd like to note: We've also previously had a vaccination mandate for smallpox. There's a precedent here, at least. Whether you're for or against a vaccination mandate I leave up to debate. But either we get everyone vaccinated or everyone needs to actually follow proper COVID rules. The second option hasn't worked out great so far, as you might be able to tell.

This is simply an anti-science viewpoint that isn't supported by the facts at all. Previously infected are better protected than fully vaccinated. Unvaccinated kids are less at risk that fully vaccinated adults. Even vaccinated people can spread the virus.

Re: Austria makes Covid19 vaccination mandatory as of Feb 2022

#114

Post by sofixa »

tomjen3 wrote: post #107
sofixa wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But... If you vaccinate all kids, you've effectively vaccinated all future adults. As of today, most countries in the EU, including Austria, have their populations vaccinated against a bunch of things ( measles, tuberculosis, etc.) by mandates for child vaccination. Just because now it's to be done to adults doesn't change things much IMHO. If Covid stays with us, a vaccine against it will probably be administered to…

Only for the cases where vaccines are effective for life (tetanus is not, as an example). And I don't think it is something to celebrate to force adults to live with the consequences of their parents decisions for life. I am not a parent, but would vaccinate my for all disease still endemic in my area. I would still worry that I might fuck them up permanently doing so.

> tetanus is not, as an example

And at least in some places, you have to redo a tetanus shot at different ages to keep up the immunity.

Re: Austria makes Covid19 vaccination mandatory as of Feb 2022

#115

Post by sofixa »

harambae wrote: post #101
sofixa wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But... If you vaccinate all kids, you've effectively vaccinated all future adults. As of today, most countries in the EU, including Austria, have their populations vaccinated against a bunch of things ( measles, tuberculosis, etc.) by mandates for child vaccination. Just because now it's to be done to adults doesn't change things much IMHO. If Covid stays with us, a vaccine against it will probably be administered to…

>If you vaccinate all kids, you've effectively vaccinated all future adults Not when the COVID-19 vaccine lasts 8 months.

It will depend on the specific vaccine. The tetanus, diphtheria and another one last 10 years and are redone occasionally, so the same logic applies.

Re: Austria makes Covid19 vaccination mandatory as of Feb 2022

#116

Post by tzs »

jmnicolas wrote: post #110
malermeister wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you're suggesting basically comes down to mitigation , which we've been having a lot of issues with. I think what we actually need is a solution , so there's nothing left to mitigate. Imo mandatory vaccinations might be just that.

The vaccine isn't efficient enough. Look at Gibraltar: 99% are vaccinated and they're still cancelling Christmas celebrations.

Gibraltar is having a case surge, but they are having almost no deaths [1].

[1] https://graphics.reuters.com/world-coronavirus-tracker-and-m...

Re: Austria makes Covid19 vaccination mandatory as of Feb 2022

#117

Post by dennis_jeeves »

anramon wrote: post #97
charbonneau2 wrote: post #42

Sounds good. Currently analyzed index case–contact pairs exposed to Delta/B.1.617.2 show that, adjusting for age, ethnicity and index of multiple deprivation (IMD), the R0 increased modestly with genomic pre-alpha (difference of 0·39 [95% credible interval –0·03 to 0·79] in peak log10 viral lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adjusting peak, sed do eiusmod tempotentially explaining its success in infection preven…

Ok, i'm convinced, hope we start sending unvaccinated people to gulags as soon as posible.

Sounds about right...

Re: Austria makes Covid19 vaccination mandatory as of Feb 2022

#118

Post by roenxi »

malermeister wrote: post #103
bko wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you're using that precedent to mandate another treatment, so in a way they did stay around.

But is that a bad thing necessarily? If we have powers that we can use in emergency situations and there's precedent they will only get used in such, isn't that the ideal state?

Looking at the US, because they keep good records on emergencies, it has been unlikely for an emergency situation to end from around 1994. There appears to still be an ongoing emergency that started in 1979.

This is a relative strong precedent in the west of emergency powers being used in an ongoing way.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_national_emergencies_i...

Re: Austria makes Covid19 vaccination mandatory as of Feb 2022

#119

Post by summerlight »

niklasbuschmann wrote: post #71
66fm472tjy7 wrote: post #56

I would have preferred giving lower priority in hospitals to voluntarily unvaccinated persons seeking COVID treatment. That would require no violation of personal freedoms and avoid the great economic cost of implementing a lockdown at the start of the touristic winter season at the cost of letting these people suffer the consequences of their belief that the vaccine is more dangerous than the disease.

Ethics aside, any law determining the priority of hospital admissions based on non-medical reasons is unconstitutional in Germany, according to legal experts. I doubt the situation differs much in Austria. But I agree, this might be the most freedom-preserving path.

> any law determining the priority of hospital admissions based on non-medical reasons is unconstitutional in Germany

Isn't vaccination status a medical reason? In fact, triage based on vaccination status is seriously discussed in many hospitals. It's because we don't have many effective treatments for COVID-19 patients other than simple symptomatic therapy (yet) and vaccinated covid-19 patients have a much higher chance to be recovered from ICU, and generally within a shorter period.

Re: Austria makes Covid19 vaccination mandatory as of Feb 2022

#120

Post by trough »

blub wrote: post #46
DyslexicAtheist wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

unwilling to get vaccinated is at least from a legal perspective not a "basic right" . Austria had compulsory vaccination before (Smallpox). Measles vaccination is mandatory in Germany. The law is that during a pandemic the country is able to impose mandatory vaccinations. see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccination_policy#Compulsory_...

It's not as clear cut as you say. The German constitutional court has not given its last word on the topic, even though they said in a preliminary decision that sufficient protection against Measles outweighs the right of unvaccinated children to go to school. Nobody's actually forcing one to get vaccinated against measles in Germany. It's only mandatory for kids which go to daycare, kindergarten or school and their…

That is right and very important to note. German law also enables employers in the realm of those institutions to terminate employment of non-vaccinated employed caregivers. There are some very tricky edge cases like some vaccinations done in the former GDR which are not sufficient - it has something to do with the vaccination being a living/dead shot but I’m not a physician.

Generally speaking, the European view on freedom firmly remains rooted in Kant-ian ethics and always weighs personal or individual freedoms versus the impact on society. This of course heavily influenced the philosophy of law and in direct consequence the laws and constitutions all over Europe.

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