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Austria makes Covid19 vaccination mandatory as of Feb 2022

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Re: Austria makes Covid19 vaccination mandatory as of Feb 2022

#91

Post by raxxorrax »

jahnu wrote: post #27
moroz2137 wrote: post #16

A point a lot of people seem to miss is that there is a huge difference between making a vaccination mandatory, taking full responsibility for any side effects, and forcing people to get vaccinated by depriving them of their basic rights if they don't, but not taking any responsibility for side effects.

We have free universal healthcare in Austria. And the state carries responsibility for problems as long as a vaccine has been officially approved. It was possible to get COVID vaccine before approval (off label it's called) but you assume responsibility. Also mandatory vaccines are not new either https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20211029-why-mandatory-va...

Well, people still have the ability to refuse at great costs to themselves and ultimately the state itself. I think the low level of protection and associated risks cannot establish enough room for a vaccination mandate. And that mandate is also again something different than a pass. I am vaccinated but I won't use a green pass. That shit won't ever go away again and we would see this every winter when the flu hits a bit harder.

Re: Austria makes Covid19 vaccination mandatory as of Feb 2022

#92

Post by AndrewBissell »

soco wrote: post #52
kavalg wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I realize. Not against vaccines in general. I only wanted to know the extent to which the government is going to enforce it as in whether they fine you, put you to jail or vaccinate you forcibly against your will. I heard that the latter is already happening in Australia and personally know a person who fled to the EU for this reason.

It's difficult to understand a "I've heard"-style of argument in the age of internet. Unless it comes from China or Russia where there's a different official understanding of "information highway".

Yes, whereas we only get the raw unadulterated truth from our media outlets and tech censors here in the West.

Re: Austria makes Covid19 vaccination mandatory as of Feb 2022

#93

Post by alpanka »

spants wrote: post #64

Gibraltar has 100% Covid Vaccination with 5th Highest Covid Mortality Rate in the World

98 deaths for a place full of old tourists and retired British couples sounds pretty good to me.

That's is 98 deaths since the beginning of the pandemic.

Re: Austria makes Covid19 vaccination mandatory as of Feb 2022

#95

Post by angelzen »

thefz wrote: post #85
bko wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forcing their people to undergo a medical procedure to accommodate tourists and allow the private tourist industry to profit sounds even more dystopian. If they're worried about hospital capacity, they should build more hospitals or restrict tourism.

Here in Italy you receive forced vaccinations up until the age of 16. Some more are strongly encouraged after, see tethanus. I can't understand why everyone is okay with vaccinating against polio after seeing its devastating and life altering effects on an unvaccinated adult, still refuse to protect themselves against a disease that killed millions in two years.

polio vaccines != covid vaccines

* Covid risk is highly age dependent. 1000x so. An unvaccinated kid has less chance of death than their vaccinated 40yo parent. Covid mortality is concentrated in the >50yo population. Please take a look at the very nice charts Singapore ministry of health put together to get a sense of the age-dependent behavior. https://www.moh.gov.sg/covid-19/statistics

* Covid vaccines do not fully stop transmission. Even the highest vaccinated places on Earth still have regular outbreaks in the winter season. At least a couple papers from reputable sources indicate that the vaccine effect on transmission is "negligible" after a few months. https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3... https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.09.28.21264260v...

* Vaccine efficacy against infection wanes over time, the medical literature estimates VEaI at 50% after 6 months. Fortunately, VE against severe disease holds much better. High risk populations greatly benefit from vaccinations. https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abm0620 https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6... https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-021-01548-7 https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2114114 https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3949410

* Covid mutates: original, alpha, delta. Every time a new mutation took over, the vaccines have proven less effective. Where is the delta vaccine?

* There is no bottom to how not effective a vaccine can be. UK epi data indicates negative VEaI for delta, and nobody has a definitive clue as to why, though many suspect statistical artifacts. Just to be clear, US and Germany epi data indicate the opposite, the only point here is that the possibility exists. https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/...

To recap:

polio: disease that mostly affects young people, crippling them for life, vaccines are highly effective in granting herd immunity and eradicating the disease.

covid: disease that mostly affects old people, has almost no effect on children, vaccines cannot stop transmission, the disease is widespread and undergoing active mutations.

If you are an adult, especially near or past retirement age, please strongly consider a covid vaccine for your protection. OTOH, it is not that clear that forced covid vaccinations for kids are a longterm net positive.

Re: Austria makes Covid19 vaccination mandatory as of Feb 2022

#97

Post by anramon »

charbonneau2 wrote: post #42

Sounds good. Currently analyzed index case–contact pairs exposed to Delta/B.1.617.2 show that, adjusting for age, ethnicity and index of multiple deprivation (IMD), the R0 increased modestly with genomic pre-alpha (difference of 0·39 [95% credible interval –0·03 to 0·79] in peak log10 viral lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adjusting peak, sed do eiusmod tempotentially explaining its success in infection preven…

Ok, i'm convinced, hope we start sending unvaccinated people to gulags as soon as posible.

Re: Austria makes Covid19 vaccination mandatory as of Feb 2022

#98

Post by jmnicolas »

soneil wrote: post #84
jmnicolas wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meh. If it's like in France there's a lot of dramatization: we got an official report about last year: COVID represented 2% of all hospitalizations and 5% of intensive care.

numbers for a year aren't hugely useful. The issue is the concurrent rate, not the annual rate. I'm in Ireland - the numbers given on Wednesday were 15 ICU beds free nationwide, with 40% of beds being used by covid patients. An easy month and a tough month might average out over the year, it doesn't actually help anyone if there's a lack of beds during the tough month. It's like the "HN hug of death" - if your server…

The "HN hug of death" is a sign that your infrastructure is not adequate.

A regular flu year was 1.5% hospitalization. We're drowning with .5 more after years and years of reducing hospitals capacity.

I can't comment on Ireland I don't know the situation but I'd bet it's the same than in France: not enough beds when something is a bit out of the ordinary.

Re: Austria makes Covid19 vaccination mandatory as of Feb 2022

#99

Post by jmnicolas »

tzs wrote: post #90
jmnicolas wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is probably a wave of hospitalizations now like every year with the flu. When you average on a year it won't be as bad and won't justify trampling civil liberties. It's just a power grab IMHO and people are so afraid of COVID they just go along. But sadly we won't get our freedoms back once all this is over.

A hurricane doesn't raise the average wind speed for the year at your house by much. Yet you can't ignore it. If I were to press the business end of my soldering iron onto your hand it would only raise the average amount of thermal energy that your hand absorbs this year by a negligible amount. Yet I'm pretty sure you would very strongly object. Hospitals in many areas are being overwhelmed to a far greater extent th…

You're right but does it justify the power grab anyway? What has been done since last year about hospitals capacity?

I can tell you that in France we have less beds than last year (not sure about intensive care though) and we fired quite a lot of unvaccinated nurses.

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