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Open Source Tax Software

ctskennerton.github.io

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Re: Open Source Tax Software

#111

Post by cranekam »

wahern wrote: post #86
ineedasername wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disruption could also come from tax reform. Some countries don't make you figure out things on your own: That's a bit like making a shopper put in the correct prices on each item they're buying and penalizing then for mistakes. A "Price is Right" game-show version of a tax filing system. Some other countries just tell you where you stand because for the vast majority of people a standard filing is all that's required…

> Some countries don't make you figure out things on your own: That's a bit like making a shopper put in the correct prices on each item they're buying and penalizing then for mistakes. A "Price is Right" game-show version of a tax filing system. The U.S. doesn't make you do this, either. Most people don't itemize deductions. You just plug in the data from your W-2. The percentage of people itemizing was 30%, but wit…

> You just plug in the data from your W-2.

This is still a lot more work than in many countries, and you still need to either fill in a paper 1040 (plus state taxes where appropriate, and some of those (cough CA) are far from simple), use tax prep software, or someone like H&R Block.

In the UK, if you're in the majority of people who have one job and straightforward finances (e.g. not renting property, no CGT, etc) you need to do nothing at all for your taxes. Your employer deducts tax from your wages and that's it. I guess technically you should verify that your "tax code" (the mechanism used to inform employers of what needs withholding) is correct but again, unless your situation is more complex that is a standard figure shared by the rest of the employed workforce.

My parents never filed a return in their entire lives.

Re: Open Source Tax Software

#112

Post by qzw »

Moto7451 wrote: post #102
qzw wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This perception is what keeps a lot of tax preparation companies in business. I know people who could fill out their taxes in 10 minutes, who would instead pay hundreds of dollars every year to have it done by one of those “tax stores.” If US high schools would spend one day to walk kids through filling out a tax return, they’d probably put H&R Block out of business. Which is also why it’s won’t ever happen.

Both you and the parent are right. I actually did get basic filing instructions in high school and managed to handle my own taxes easily for the first fourteen of my working years. Eventually my taxes fell into the realm of forms that even CPAs can make mistakes on or are unfamiliar with. I am really conservative with this stuff and really make sure to pay what I owe. I, or my CPA, still make mistakes that result in…

Yes, I have also gotten those. Pretty nice to get a check that you weren’t expecting, from the IRS no less. In my experience a lot of CPAs are very dependent on tax prep software anyway. It might be more advanced “professional”tax software, but still has limitations. A good CPA will be more aware of those limitations ahead of time, but mistakes are almost inevitable over the course of a few years.

Re: Open Source Tax Software

#113

Post by cm2187 »

xivzgrev wrote: post #19

I worked on tax software and have seen these kind of efforts. Noble, yes. Short lived, yes. It’s relatively easy to make a free 1040 file. The real problem comes from all. The. Edge. Cases. 1) do you support xyz state? 2) what if I lived in multiple states? 3) what if i… And on and on. And it’s not just one and done. Every year IRS and states are changing their shit so you have to go thru and make all kind of updates…

Plus complex corporate taxation is one of these domains where the venn diagram of domain skills vs programming skills is completely disjoint. Tax specialists will model it in unnecessarily convoluted way in Excel, and the domain will be forever opaque to people who can produce software efficiently.

Re: Open Source Tax Software

#114

Post by Ekaros »

ivolimmen wrote: post #79

I keep being perplexed by how the Americans do stuff. I am Dutch and my government makes it (relatively) easy to do taxes. We got a website we can go to; it's filled by the government and we just need to verify that it is filled correctly and then click submit. Some people can make adjustments where needed and if needed. You can also let an accountant do it for you but that is optional; but useful if you have had a t…

Finland has it even simpler. If I don't want to add anything they just send me calculation and if I do nothing either I get transferred money or they send me a bill.

Re: Open Source Tax Software

#115

Post by Ekaros »

spaetzleesser wrote: post #67
fnord123 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sarcasm aside, the IRS customer support is excellent.

I can confirm that. I once had a problem with business tax, called them and I was surprised how well they treated me and gave advice.

Almost as if their job is to make sure that you pay taxes correctly... It really makes sense that they would want it to be correct as it is less potential work for them.

Re: Open Source Tax Software

#116

Post by desas »

3gg wrote: post #33
icelancer wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> even does the taxes for you This should exist. 80% of US citizens can just have this done right now. >> government program that develops this kind of software This should not for the remaining 20%.

Right. For most people that are on a payroll and maybe have a 401k and what not, tax preparation should be easily automated. In some EU countries, the government will send you a draft that you basically just have to sign and send back. For the remaining 20% (likely even less than 10%) of people with more exotic investments, it is probably safe to assume that they either have the knowledge to handle the edge cases the…

In the UK 80% of the population don't even have to sign anything and send it back. The rest have some employment income information on a website and have to supply the rest of the data, I found it pretty straight forward when I did it for the first time.

Re: Open Source Tax Software

#117

Post by globular-toast »

ivolimmen wrote: post #79

I keep being perplexed by how the Americans do stuff. I am Dutch and my government makes it (relatively) easy to do taxes. We got a website we can go to; it's filled by the government and we just need to verify that it is filled correctly and then click submit. Some people can make adjustments where needed and if needed. You can also let an accountant do it for you but that is optional; but useful if you have had a t…

In the UK, most people don't need to do anything at all. Generally only self-employed or those with "unusual" incomes need to manually declare and pay taxes. It's your duty to check your tax code, but if it's correct (it almost always is) you can just let the system work.

Re: Open Source Tax Software

#118

Post by tzs »

qzw wrote: post #101
xivzgrev wrote: post #19

I worked on tax software and have seen these kind of efforts. Noble, yes. Short lived, yes. It’s relatively easy to make a free 1040 file. The real problem comes from all. The. Edge. Cases. 1) do you support xyz state? 2) what if I lived in multiple states? 3) what if i… And on and on. And it’s not just one and done. Every year IRS and states are changing their shit so you have to go thru and make all kind of updates…

> I think the only thing that can really disrupt this dynamic are “free” commercial software (like credit karma now cash app), or government provided. That’s why it was worth $7B for Intuit to acquire Credit Karma. They’re pretty aggressive about buying up potential disruptors.

Intuit didn’t get Credit Karma’s tax filing business. That got spun off and went to Square.

Re: Open Source Tax Software

#119

Post by 2ion »

la_fayette wrote: post #78

Is there something like this for Germany?

elster.de is the official means to input your tax info supported by the tax office. However, it's largely an online form with some legalese and dry formal explanations in a sidebar.

You can largely use it if you know what you are doing or have the most simplest tax case, but it won't offer you suggestions how to optimize taxes, and doesn't include large lists of items that you could possibly deduct. This service is offered by proprietary tax tools like WISO or QuickSteuer which offer questionnaires trying to cover more details of your tax situation to find out opportunities to optimize, and include large help files that contain examples and explanations.

Cost for these proprietary tools can be very low, they go on sale for like €5-€10 at discounters during tax season or are like €20 for the fully featured versions.

These tools also manage items like long-term deductions over the years, so that's their lock in effect.

Re: Open Source Tax Software

#120

Post by AmericanChopper »

drstewart wrote: post #96
bjarneh wrote: post #90

Filing personal taxes in the US sounds like filing taxes for a company in other countries. A complete nightmare consisting of tons of forms that some bureaucrat dreamed up, which nobody really knows how to fill out correctly. Software exists to fill them out for you, and if you use some well-known software to do it, it's just assumed to be correct by everyone; including the state.

90% of people in the US could fill out their taxes by hand in less than 5 minutes. It's Yes, the IRS could do even this for you, but there's a myth that US taxes are always monstrously complicated that everyone likes to perpetuate: 1) The tax companies like it because it keeps people scared of doing it themselves 2) Tax reform advocates like it because it's they can cluck and shake their head at the corrupt governmen…

US tax laws are monstrously complicated. There’s a couple thousand pages of tax code, along with close to 10,000 pages of IRS regulations, that you won’t understand adequately unless you’ve also studied the many tens of thousands of pages of related case law. There is no single person alive who fully understands US tax laws, and even a well resourced team of people likely won’t when combined.

It’s possible to understand it well enough to get by, but you’re pretty much guaranteed to make mistakes in one way or another, and some of those mistakes are pretty much guaranteed to be criminal offences. You could live your whole life without that ever becoming an issue, but the gamble you’re taking isn’t that you’re never going to make a mistake (you will), it’s that the IRS will never commit any considerable resources to investigating your mistakes.

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