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Open Source Tax Software

ctskennerton.github.io

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Re: Open Source Tax Software

#31

Post by 3gg »

j_m_b wrote: post #21
3gg wrote: post #10

The real problem here is that Intuit and other companies lobby millions to maintain their status quo. The right thing to do would be to put every single dollar spent on these corporations into a government program that develops this kind of software or even does the taxes for you (this already exists in many countries in the EU.) Instead, in the US, you pay for Turbotax, they make a profit out if it, and then they us…

The US government is always honest and most assuredly will make their software with the end user in mind. Combined with the excellent customer support offered by the IRS and the US government's proven track record in creating stable software used by millions, this would be the best solution.

I can only assume you're being sarcastic, but this kind of attitude only benefits these corporations. It is a common tactic by the rich oligarchies to defund and delegitimize government institutions so that they are scorned by the population and eventually privatized -- a move that only benefits them in the end. I would suggest Noam Chomsky's "Requiem for the American Dream: The 10 Principles of Concentration of Wealth & Power."

Re: Open Source Tax Software

#32

Post by cable2600 »

CheezeIt wrote: post #8

No way would I ever trust open source tax software not to mess things up somehow. The paid software has a big incentive to get it right.

Paid software like Turbotax has hand-holding via the web interface or helpline chat over the app. Tech support is included in the price.

Re: Open Source Tax Software

#33

Post by 3gg »

icelancer wrote: post #23
3gg wrote: post #10

The real problem here is that Intuit and other companies lobby millions to maintain their status quo. The right thing to do would be to put every single dollar spent on these corporations into a government program that develops this kind of software or even does the taxes for you (this already exists in many countries in the EU.) Instead, in the US, you pay for Turbotax, they make a profit out if it, and then they us…

>> even does the taxes for you This should exist. 80% of US citizens can just have this done right now. >> government program that develops this kind of software This should not for the remaining 20%.

Right. For most people that are on a payroll and maybe have a 401k and what not, tax preparation should be easily automated. In some EU countries, the government will send you a draft that you basically just have to sign and send back. For the remaining 20% (likely even less than 10%) of people with more exotic investments, it is probably safe to assume that they either have the knowledge to handle the edge cases themselves or the wealth to pay someone to do it for them.

It should also be noted that the IRS already has all of the information about you anyway. Your bank, your brokers, etc all send copies of your financials to them. At that point, filling in a tax return by hand is basically a potential form of punishment for not doing your homework right.

Re: Open Source Tax Software

#34

Post by vimsee »

xivzgrev wrote: post #19

I worked on tax software and have seen these kind of efforts. Noble, yes. Short lived, yes. It’s relatively easy to make a free 1040 file. The real problem comes from all. The. Edge. Cases. 1) do you support xyz state? 2) what if I lived in multiple states? 3) what if i… And on and on. And it’s not just one and done. Every year IRS and states are changing their shit so you have to go thru and make all kind of updates…

I feel like this is a kind of XY problem that could be solved theoretically by agreeing on a more streamlined tax-regulation. It will take away the ability to fine tune tax deducts and so forth, but in return we can more easily design software to handle our taxes. I find that not having this automated nowadays with the advancement in computing resources that we have at disposal today is surprising.

Re: Open Source Tax Software

#35

Post by umeshunni »

vimsee wrote: post #34
xivzgrev wrote: post #19

I worked on tax software and have seen these kind of efforts. Noble, yes. Short lived, yes. It’s relatively easy to make a free 1040 file. The real problem comes from all. The. Edge. Cases. 1) do you support xyz state? 2) what if I lived in multiple states? 3) what if i… And on and on. And it’s not just one and done. Every year IRS and states are changing their shit so you have to go thru and make all kind of updates…

I feel like this is a kind of XY problem that could be solved theoretically by agreeing on a more streamlined tax-regulation. It will take away the ability to fine tune tax deducts and so forth, but in return we can more easily design software to handle our taxes. I find that not having this automated nowadays with the advancement in computing resources that we have at disposal today is surprising.

Yes, software can be much simpler if the real world wasn't so complex.

The reality is that governments use taxation as one of their tools to reward certain behaviors and population segments and to discourage/punish others. Simplifying taxation is taking that power away from governments. Why would any government choose to divest itself of those powers?

Re: Open Source Tax Software

#36

Post by umeshunni »

3gg wrote: post #10

The real problem here is that Intuit and other companies lobby millions to maintain their status quo. The right thing to do would be to put every single dollar spent on these corporations into a government program that develops this kind of software or even does the taxes for you (this already exists in many countries in the EU.) Instead, in the US, you pay for Turbotax, they make a profit out if it, and then they us…

I see this comment on every single article about taxation on reddit and HN, but can you be a bit more specific and identify what this lobbying does and actually point at some examples?

Re: Open Source Tax Software

#37

Post by jjeaff »

the_svd_doctor wrote: post #18
phuff wrote: post #12

The US government provides this online for free. Only the edgiest of edge cases aren't supported. You can e-file your federal return with this regardless of how much money you make. You still have to do the calculations yourself. But you don't have to use paper. https://www.irs.gov/e-file-providers/free-file-fillable-form...

Right. But doing the calculation is pretty hard for most people. Add that to the risk associated to making mistakes and most people will probably prefer paying a bit and have a “””guarantee””” that there are no mistakes. (I don’t disagree he. Just pointing it out.)

Yes, and it's not just calculations. It's things like, "if section F line 27 is greater than the total in section B line 12, subtract the amount in section z line 127 from this total and multiply the result by the appropriate tax rate (see long form instructions for form 478B and fill out Worksheet 12C to calculate your appropriate tax rate).

This is not a verbatim quote, but solar to what you have to do now to calculate health care insurance subsidies.

Re: Open Source Tax Software

#38

Post by SV_BubbleTime »

vimsee wrote: post #34
xivzgrev wrote: post #19

I worked on tax software and have seen these kind of efforts. Noble, yes. Short lived, yes. It’s relatively easy to make a free 1040 file. The real problem comes from all. The. Edge. Cases. 1) do you support xyz state? 2) what if I lived in multiple states? 3) what if i… And on and on. And it’s not just one and done. Every year IRS and states are changing their shit so you have to go thru and make all kind of updates…

I feel like this is a kind of XY problem that could be solved theoretically by agreeing on a more streamlined tax-regulation. It will take away the ability to fine tune tax deducts and so forth, but in return we can more easily design software to handle our taxes. I find that not having this automated nowadays with the advancement in computing resources that we have at disposal today is surprising.

We could change the system with a focus on making it easier to file, process, and confirm.

OR… Intuit can keep shoveling money into campaign funds. We know what it’ll be.

Re: Open Source Tax Software

#39

Post by junar »

umeshunni wrote: post #36
3gg wrote: post #10

The real problem here is that Intuit and other companies lobby millions to maintain their status quo. The right thing to do would be to put every single dollar spent on these corporations into a government program that develops this kind of software or even does the taxes for you (this already exists in many countries in the EU.) Instead, in the US, you pay for Turbotax, they make a profit out if it, and then they us…

I see this comment on every single article about taxation on reddit and HN, but can you be a bit more specific and identify what this lobbying does and actually point at some examples?

The story of ReadyReturn in California is a pretty clear example.

https://www.npr.org/transcripts/521132960

Re: Open Source Tax Software

#40

Post by jjeaff »

junar wrote: post #27
ivalm wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except it's very useful to be able to import the many many forms for the various sources of income automatically. If you're just a w2 and a 1099-int then yes, obviously it's not hard to file taxes manually.

Those features are really only viable at the scale of large commercial tax software, not the efforts described in the submitted post. PDFs aren't exactly used in a standardized way, so trying to make this work for even a fraction of the numerous tax form issuers requires a lot of work, and a lot of ongoing maintenance. You'll need to prioritize the actual tax forms, and annual updates to those first.

I used TurboTax online last year and was pretty happy with it's ability to import 1099 data from several companies I use like vanguard and Ameritrade. So the PDFs aren't standardized but many providers have apis to pull the data. In fact, they may be using something like Plaid that consolidates all the APIs into one.
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