France cancels defence meeting with UK over submarine row, sources say • Hacker News Board

Re: France cancels defence meeting with UK over submarine row, sources say

#111

Post by Balero » Mon, Sep 20, 2021, 3:34 PM UTC

rualca wrote: post #72

Balero wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> b) join AUKUS as a junior partner, very painful but logical; Why is this logical? These partners have already shown that they are going to betray France's trust and lie to them. It would be better to be on your own than have unreliable partners, or worse ones that work against you.

> These partners have already shown that they are going to betray France's trust and lie to them. What? Betray France? So France jeopardizes a nation's national defense by failing to deliver critical defense assets, and this is spun into being a betrayal on France? Are we supposed to put our blinders on to think that this issue is about France's commercial interests and not Australia's national security?

They hit their September deadline with the project, and all of the requested changes. The assets were on track, with the requested changes.

The betrayal issue comes with the very recent statements from Australia about supporting the project, whilst behind the scenes unbeknownst to France planning to scrap it.

Re: France cancels defence meeting with UK over submarine row, sources say

#112

Post by Chris2048 » Mon, Sep 20, 2021, 4:59 PM UTC

RalfWausE wrote: post #87

makomk wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, the big thing holding up a trade deal with China right now is that China decided to sanction several MEPs and the European Parliament's human rights subcommittee for scrutinizing their forced labour camps in Xinjiang, which the European Parliament of course considered an attack on democracy itself. So if France used its sway to get the EU to align with China, that'd basically demonstrate that the French governm…

Now... i would think it would go on the line of "change through rapprochement", and even this would not be THAT far fetched. China may be a dictatorial regime, but its an dictatorial regime that values good trade deals and making money. So getting concessions on not genociding the Uigurs (at least not in a way the world can be witness) are becoming more easy.

> getting concessions on not genociding the Uigurs

wouldn't this encourage future human-rights violations as "leverage" for concessions?

Re: France cancels defence meeting with UK over submarine row, sources say

#113

Post by wdr1 » Mon, Sep 20, 2021, 7:08 PM UTC

inglor_cz wrote: post #2

On one hand I understand them, sudden cancelation of a contract is very unpleasant and demeaning. On the other hand, this is basically a diplomatic version of a tantrum; and powerful countries rarely respond to a tantrum by doing anything substantial. If France could get the rest of the EU behind it, then maybe. But rest of the EU looks at the problem with disinterest, given that they stood to gain nothing from the o…

My understanding was the only change initiated by AU was the submarine contract.

They were still very willing to continue to continue on the diplomatic & cooperation fronts.

It was the French who blew up that aspect because of the submarine contract. It doesn't seem right to point the finger at the Australians for that.