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Rejected internal job applicants are twice as likely to quit

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Re: Rejected internal job applicants are twice as likely to quit

#111

Post by macksd »

xhkkffbf wrote: post #103
yaacov wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you can’t get promoted internally, try getting promoted externally :)

Believe it or not, it can be easier. Often you're seen as a certain type or level in your current job. They can't imagine you doing a different one. Plus, if they promote you, they just have to fill a lower position. A new company doesn't have any of these biases. A friend in night school said he fully expected to have to move to a new company to get promoted. His current boss didn't see him as someone with a masters…

There's the perception, yeah. I've also been told that I was so productive in my current role, they saw it as a loss to move me to my target role. Of course, they lost me entirely...

There's a place for that: just because someone's a good engineer doesn't make them a good leader or manager, for instance. But such stiff attitudes really hurt an org, IMO.

Re: Rejected internal job applicants are twice as likely to quit

#112

Post by devoutsalsa »

bdowling wrote: post #101
lvspiff wrote: post #76

After reading the article one thing that struck me was the " internal candidates who were rejected after interviewing with the hiring manager were half as likely to exit as those rejected earlier in the process." Working at a fortune 100 top 10 company I've applied for multiple higher level positions after 5 years and multiple high marks on my reviews and not gotten 1 recruiter call. I did get with one recruiter and…

> one of the positions was actually only posted for someone internally This is extremely common. A company can't allow for nepotism or favoritism, so it requires a public posting for any open position. Qualified external applicants see the posting and apply. The managers hire the internal candidate they wanted to hire anyway. It's all a huge waste of everyone's time. I'd bet that a large percentage of job postings ar…

I had a boss once the said “nepotism will get you everywhere “. I didn’t agree with his philosophy, but his candor was refreshing.

Re: Rejected internal job applicants are twice as likely to quit

#113

Post by zippergz »

bdowling wrote: post #101
lvspiff wrote: post #76

After reading the article one thing that struck me was the " internal candidates who were rejected after interviewing with the hiring manager were half as likely to exit as those rejected earlier in the process." Working at a fortune 100 top 10 company I've applied for multiple higher level positions after 5 years and multiple high marks on my reviews and not gotten 1 recruiter call. I did get with one recruiter and…

> one of the positions was actually only posted for someone internally This is extremely common. A company can't allow for nepotism or favoritism, so it requires a public posting for any open position. Qualified external applicants see the posting and apply. The managers hire the internal candidate they wanted to hire anyway. It's all a huge waste of everyone's time. I'd bet that a large percentage of job postings ar…

One of many ways that what the HR function has grown into simply adds overhead and friction with no actual value. An HR leader could argue that they are adding value by protecting the company from lawsuits or other risk by instituting this "fair" hiring process. But if everyone knows it's a sham, and that the internal candidate is going to get hired regardless, there is no protection in fact. It slows things down and increases costs, and does not truly reduce risk, improve results, or anything else it might be claimed to do.

Re: Rejected internal job applicants are twice as likely to quit

#114

Post by deeviant »

bdowling wrote: post #101
lvspiff wrote: post #76

After reading the article one thing that struck me was the " internal candidates who were rejected after interviewing with the hiring manager were half as likely to exit as those rejected earlier in the process." Working at a fortune 100 top 10 company I've applied for multiple higher level positions after 5 years and multiple high marks on my reviews and not gotten 1 recruiter call. I did get with one recruiter and…

> one of the positions was actually only posted for someone internally This is extremely common. A company can't allow for nepotism or favoritism, so it requires a public posting for any open position. Qualified external applicants see the posting and apply. The managers hire the internal candidate they wanted to hire anyway. It's all a huge waste of everyone's time. I'd bet that a large percentage of job postings ar…

The far more common scenario (At least at the companies I have worked at) is that an external applicant is desired but because US laws require a posting, one is made, even though that posting is there only to comply with the law and the company is basically already in the process of hiring the external candidate.

Re: Rejected internal job applicants are twice as likely to quit

#115

Post by devoutsalsa »

abalashov wrote: post #109
nickff wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apparently not; the Fortune 100 is a sort of curated list, and there is no shorter list. The 10 at the top are referred to as the "Fortune 100 Top 10". https://www.investopedia.com/terms/f/fortune-100.asp

I guess it's seen to be a little gauche to whittle the list down beyond a certain point, i.e. the Fortune 3.

When Walmart was the most valuable company, a friend who worked at Walmart.com said he worked at a Fortune 1 company.

Re: Rejected internal job applicants are twice as likely to quit

#116

Post by yawaworht1978 »

I got internally promoted once and they straight up told me the job was only posted for compliance reasons(externally) and to appear fair(internally). The interview was not even an interview, it was a handshake and broadcasting the salary and start date, no less no more. They just asked do you want it or not. I took it, was one of the greatest opportunities ever.

Contrasting that, I had applied internally in other companies Only to go though a ridiculous interview , almost a history masters on the subject matter to be told the decision was already made and they wanted to interview all.

Corporate life is weird.

Another thing I have experienced was i was offered a job on the spot from a company , took it but then later told them I will not start, then i have seen the same company offering the same job, just in a different location, applied for fun, they rejected me.

Re: Rejected internal job applicants are twice as likely to quit

#117

Post by after_care »

yawaworht1978 wrote: post #116

I got internally promoted once and they straight up told me the job was only posted for compliance reasons(externally) and to appear fair(internally). The interview was not even an interview, it was a handshake and broadcasting the salary and start date, no less no more. They just asked do you want it or not. I took it, was one of the greatest opportunities ever. Contrasting that, I had applied internally in other co…

> Another thing I have experienced was i was offered a job on the spot from a company , took it but then later told them I will not start, then i have seen the same company offering the same job, just in a different location, applied for fun, they rejected me.

Tech interviews have such a high degree of random in them.

Re: Rejected internal job applicants are twice as likely to quit

#118

Post by jonfw »

mschuster91 wrote: post #90
jonfw wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And in the longer term- it builds stronger incentives for employees. Most devs, if HN is any indication, believe that jumping ship every 1-2 years is the best way to move up. But if you have senior devs who were juniors at the same company just a few years ago, you'll probably be more likely to stick around.

> Most devs, if HN is any indication, believe that jumping ship every 1-2 years is the best way to move up. It's not just developers. The old model of companies rewarding loyalty and actively investing in furthering their employees' skills has declined across the board, and it's no coincidence that the timeline correlates with the timeline of the demise of unions and collective wage/employment condition agreements.

Lots of other things are happening too- people are educating themselves more, people have more jobs available from their locations (remote + commute distance increases + increases in population density), etc.

Re: Rejected internal job applicants are twice as likely to quit

#119

Post by playpause »

MattGaiser wrote: post #42

Are there any meaningful career advantages to focusing on internal roles over all roles? The standards seem higher, you have to overcome your flaws and mistakes (rather than just hide them), you need to get your manager to get over his first impressions and think about you differently, you have to fight for a raise other companies will throw at you, etc. Other than stock and maybe a pension, why is sticking in the co…

These are good points, and maybe people don’t always consider them enough. But I guess on the positive side, with an internal move you usually have a clearer idea of what it will really be like to do the job, and that may be worth a lot.

Re: Rejected internal job applicants are twice as likely to quit

#120

Post by behringer »

Areading314 wrote: post #99
lvspiff wrote: post #76

After reading the article one thing that struck me was the " internal candidates who were rejected after interviewing with the hiring manager were half as likely to exit as those rejected earlier in the process." Working at a fortune 100 top 10 company I've applied for multiple higher level positions after 5 years and multiple high marks on my reviews and not gotten 1 recruiter call. I did get with one recruiter and…

Simple reason is if they hire someone internally they just get another open req to fill.

Turns out they have another req to fill anyway, with hardly any notice too.
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