Rejected internal job applicants are twice as likely to quit • Hacker News Board

Re: Rejected internal job applicants are twice as likely to quit

#41

Post by dtjb » Fri, Sep 03, 2021, 4:19 PM UTC

tw04 wrote: post #26

etempleton wrote: post #24

I think hiring externally is often over valued in many organizations today. There is a number of reasons for this, but one is that if you hire someone external they are more under your control than an internal hire who already has ideas of how things should work and relationships and therefore has their own amount of political clout. A new hire has no reputation to lean on so must be a bit more cautious at first. Ano…

I'd argue the biggest hurdle isn't even what you like or dislike, it's that when someone gets used to you being in a given position, that's all they see in you. I actually had that happen at one point in my career, kept getting an "I don't think you're ready". When I finally told them I'm leaving if it doesn't happen, they did the right thing. Afterwards I got a lot of "I'm sorry I pushed back, I couldn't see you in…

That sounds like a failure of management, not a symptom of it.

Re: Rejected internal job applicants are twice as likely to quit

#42

Post by MattGaiser » Fri, Sep 03, 2021, 4:23 PM UTC

Are there any meaningful career advantages to focusing on internal roles over all roles?

The standards seem higher, you have to overcome your flaws and mistakes (rather than just hide them), you need to get your manager to get over his first impressions and think about you differently, you have to fight for a raise other companies will throw at you, etc.

Other than stock and maybe a pension, why is sticking in the company so important to people?

Re: Rejected internal job applicants are twice as likely to quit

#43

Post by digianarchist » Fri, Sep 03, 2021, 4:25 PM UTC

ourguile wrote: post #10

This just happened with me, applied for a few internal positions I was told I was qualified for, then later found out they had changed their minds. No other opportunity for growth internally otherwise, so my only option is to look outside of the company.

I applied for four positions at Capital One before throwing in the towel:

- Two of those applications were ignored. No response at all from the recruiter.

- Another jumped on a call to say the requirements were "dumbed-down" to get more diverse applicants to apply. Women tend not to apply for jobs they think they are unqualified for.

- Last was pulled as I was told I had to go through the promotion process.

Re: Rejected internal job applicants are twice as likely to quit

#44

Post by nekoashide » Fri, Sep 03, 2021, 4:25 PM UTC

I have always given the advice to everyone I meet "Move up or move on". You should not work at a company more than a few years before you are either promoted or become highly compensated for your position. Far too many of my peers have become stagnant working at a company for 6+ years without moving up. They make less and miss out on the opportunity to make more money and expand their skills elsewhere.

If you apply for an internal position you are qualified for and get denied it's time to start looking, you do not have a future at that company.

Re: Rejected internal job applicants are twice as likely to quit

#45

Post by BizarroLand » Fri, Sep 03, 2021, 4:27 PM UTC

etempleton wrote: post #24

I think hiring externally is often over valued in many organizations today. There is a number of reasons for this, but one is that if you hire someone external they are more under your control than an internal hire who already has ideas of how things should work and relationships and therefore has their own amount of political clout. A new hire has no reputation to lean on so must be a bit more cautious at first. Ano…

Also, when you hire from within at some point you still have to bring in a new employee to fill the vacuum, so you end up doing more work.

It's worth doing right as most work is, but managers want fast solutions and typically are not incentivized to take their time.

Re: Rejected internal job applicants are twice as likely to quit

#46

Post by jonfw » Fri, Sep 03, 2021, 4:27 PM UTC

etempleton wrote: post #24

I think hiring externally is often over valued in many organizations today. There is a number of reasons for this, but one is that if you hire someone external they are more under your control than an internal hire who already has ideas of how things should work and relationships and therefore has their own amount of political clout. A new hire has no reputation to lean on so must be a bit more cautious at first. Ano…

And in the longer term- it builds stronger incentives for employees.

Most devs, if HN is any indication, believe that jumping ship every 1-2 years is the best way to move up. But if you have senior devs who were juniors at the same company just a few years ago, you'll probably be more likely to stick around.

Re: Rejected internal job applicants are twice as likely to quit

#47

Post by uxp100 » Fri, Sep 03, 2021, 4:27 PM UTC

mytailorisrich wrote: post #25

hprotagonist wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's entirely possible that my experience just doesn't mean anything in a big org, i should add: the different groups at microsoft or whatever seem to basically be different companies entirely, so at that scale i have no idea what i'd think about this.

> the different groups at microsoft or whatever seem to basically be different companies entirely That's fairly typical of any large company. But that's also mean that you are not shown the door by being rejected internally because you are as unknown as an external candidate, and the fact that you are an internal candidate won't make any difference. In fact, depending on company politics, being an internal candidate…

Yeah, my (very frank and helpful!) internal career counselor told me, whatever the CEO and promotional materials from HR say, be prepared for moving between groups to be much harder than moving within one, there will be bad blood afterwards, especially with how uncertain hiring was due to covid (18 months ago). If I transferred across the company, that would fulfill that groups req, without guaranteeing that the group I left would get one (since a non-official hiring freeze was in place). When I quit that job I noticed they started hiring for my position like 4 months later, so it did take them a while to get a req.

Re: Rejected internal job applicants are twice as likely to quit

#48

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Sep 03, 2021, 4:27 PM UTC

darkwizard42 wrote: post #28

topkai22 wrote: post #13

"Second, a rejected candidate’s likelihood of leaving was cut in half if they were passed over in favor of an internal candidate, rather than an external candidate." So, basically, a internal candidate passed over for an internal candidate is no more likely to quit?

I think still likely to quit, just less likely. I believe based on the rest of the study that people who are attempting to transfer internally care about the team/company/work area but want the mobility and if you hire external candidates they don't believe they will have a chance at other roles either (which they perceive will be biased toward external candidates as well)

[deleted]

Re: Rejected internal job applicants are twice as likely to quit

#49

Post by sneak » Fri, Sep 03, 2021, 4:30 PM UTC

etempleton wrote: post #24

I think hiring externally is often over valued in many organizations today. There is a number of reasons for this, but one is that if you hire someone external they are more under your control than an internal hire who already has ideas of how things should work and relationships and therefore has their own amount of political clout. A new hire has no reputation to lean on so must be a bit more cautious at first. Ano…

Your comment makes it sound like you are biased toward internal hiring being better. Why is that?

Re: Rejected internal job applicants are twice as likely to quit

#50

Post by FroshKiller » Fri, Sep 03, 2021, 4:31 PM UTC

MattGaiser wrote: post #42

Are there any meaningful career advantages to focusing on internal roles over all roles? The standards seem higher, you have to overcome your flaws and mistakes (rather than just hide them), you need to get your manager to get over his first impressions and think about you differently, you have to fight for a raise other companies will throw at you, etc. Other than stock and maybe a pension, why is sticking in the co…

So I don't have to move, make new relationships, make my kids change schools, tons of reasons.