Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Immunity Generated from Covid-19 Vaccines Differs from an Infection

directorsblog.nih.gov

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

111–120 of 250 posts

Re: Immunity Generated from Covid-19 Vaccines Differs from an Infection

#111

Post by buu700 »

oldgradstudent wrote: post #67
bananabiscuit wrote: post #3

The spike protein targeting antibodies produced by the vaccine do indeed target a wider range of spike mutations than the spike protein antibodies from previous infection. However, vaccines only target spike protein, while a previous infection will cause your body to produce antibodies for a much larger set of targets on the virus, which in practice leads to a more robust immunity. This is supported by data from Isra…

> However, vaccines only target spike protein, while a previous infection will cause your body to produce antibodies for a much larger set of targets on the virus, which in practice leads to a more robust immunity. This is supported by data from Israel and some recent studies No, it does not. The data from Israel only supports the claim that immunity from infection is longer lasting than from the vaccine, which shoul…

which should not have been a surprise to anyone

Why is that? I have no background in immunology so it's mildly surprising to me.

Re: Immunity Generated from Covid-19 Vaccines Differs from an Infection

#112

Post by fshbbdssbbgdd »

dimgl wrote: post #93
brainbrane wrote: post #54

I just learned last week that my COVID antibody count from the vaccine is zero. Since I'm on an immunosuppressing medication that wipes out the B cells in my bloodstream, this isn't really all that surprising to me. I learned about this because I'm in a medical study, and other people in the study who take the same medication also don't produce any COVID antibodies in response to the vaccine. What's interesting is th…

> What's interesting is that I still get side effects from the vaccine What side effects? How can you know this is coming from the vaccine? > I've been managing an autoimmune disease (MS) for the past 25 years. Wouldn't it be more likely that this [multiple sclerosis] is the cause of your symptoms?

I assume we’re talking about the acute flu-like side effects commonly experienced in the days after getting the vaccine. Presumably this person can tell the difference between those and whatever they’ve had for the previous 25 years.

Re: Immunity Generated from Covid-19 Vaccines Differs from an Infection

#113

Post by walterbell »

criticaltinker wrote: post #68
Ajedi32 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was confused about that as well. The article suggests that targeting "other portions of the spike protein" (as immune systems previously infected with COVID do) results in the immune system being _less_ robust against variants of the virus than targeting "places on the RBD" (as immune systems exposed to Moderna's mRNA vaccine do): > Specifically, antibodies elicited by the mRNA vaccine were more focused to the RBD…

> Why is the article saying the opposite? The cited study in OP may have a slightly pro-vaccine bias, potentially because two authors have "the potential to receive a share of IP revenue" on a relevant patent, and because one author consults for Moderna. Regardless, the study presents scientifically accurate findings, but in a few places it tries to stretch those into questionable conclusions. For example, the author…

Thanks for the detailed review. We need AI bots and media metadata to enable automated "supply chain analysis" of media and journal articles, including social network analytics of finance and other influence networks.

Such analytics are now beginning for software supply chains, thanks to a Presidential Executive Order. As warfare spreads from kinetic to cyber to psychological, we will need more tooling to keep pace with the analytical descendants of Cambridge Analytica. Social discourse can be mined in real time to identify high-leverage, transient gaps in narratives, to influence far-reaching real world policy.

Individual humans, parsing text for meaning, have an uphill journey.

TODO: create Streisand bot to extract downvoted comments from HN, differentiate between legitimate vs targeted downvotes, then republish to an audience for critical response on any valid points, i.e. use the infrastructure and human resources of would-be censors, to generate new signals.

Re: Immunity Generated from Covid-19 Vaccines Differs from an Infection

#114

Post by throw_nbvc1234 »

dimgl wrote: post #93
brainbrane wrote: post #54

I just learned last week that my COVID antibody count from the vaccine is zero. Since I'm on an immunosuppressing medication that wipes out the B cells in my bloodstream, this isn't really all that surprising to me. I learned about this because I'm in a medical study, and other people in the study who take the same medication also don't produce any COVID antibodies in response to the vaccine. What's interesting is th…

> What's interesting is that I still get side effects from the vaccine What side effects? How can you know this is coming from the vaccine? > I've been managing an autoimmune disease (MS) for the past 25 years. Wouldn't it be more likely that this [multiple sclerosis] is the cause of your symptoms?

Probably means the typically vaccine side-effects that are similar to getting a cold as your body "fights off" the vaccine and develops immunity.

Re: Immunity Generated from Covid-19 Vaccines Differs from an Infection

#115

Post by retrac »

faeyanpiraat wrote: post #106
nightfly wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's all about timing. Right now in Oregon our hospitals are full. So the less people getting infected right now the better.

If I remember correctly, the number of vaccinated people who get infected and require hospitalization is quite low.

The number of people possibly infected by a vaccinated person as an asymptomatic or mild symptomatic carrier and who may require hospitalization is still ambiguous. I will continue to err on the side of caution, tho I have little worry for myself personally.

Re: Immunity Generated from Covid-19 Vaccines Differs from an Infection

#116

Post by staticassertion »

nradov wrote: post #101
staticassertion wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are there such vaccines available in the US? It seems like those would make for effective boosters.

There are no inactivated virus vaccines authorized in the US. I'm not aware of any research on the effectiveness of using such vaccines as boosters after other types of vaccines.

Thanks

Re: Immunity Generated from Covid-19 Vaccines Differs from an Infection

#117

Post by lupire »

buu700 wrote: post #111
oldgradstudent wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> However, vaccines only target spike protein, while a previous infection will cause your body to produce antibodies for a much larger set of targets on the virus, which in practice leads to a more robust immunity. This is supported by data from Israel and some recent studies No, it does not. The data from Israel only supports the claim that immunity from infection is longer lasting than from the vaccine, which shoul…

which should not have been a surprise to anyone Why is that? I have no background in immunology so it's mildly surprising to me.

The vaccine is a basically partial copy of the virus, so it stands to reason that the virus would be more dangerous as well as trigger a broader immune response.

But now we're back to speculation about mechanism, which GP was opposed to.

Re: Immunity Generated from Covid-19 Vaccines Differs from an Infection

#118

Post by fshbbdssbbgdd »

jart wrote: post #100
UncleOxidant wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, why aren't we putting more effort into getting an intranasal vaccine approved for emergency use? An intranasal vaccine would confer mucosal immunity and might also be more acceptable to the vaccine hesitant. They're talking about 3rd shot boosters, but I'd really like to be able to get an intranasal vaccine as the third booster.

I don't think anyone's concerned about IM vs. IN as they are mRNA vs. DNA. The boosters deliver double stranded helix straight to the nucleus like a Windows update. You'd have to pull an Apocalypse Now to roll that back. GM people nobody panics but GM organic food and everyone loses their minds.

I thought the boosters just have mRNA strands like the original mRNA vaccines do? I haven’t heard anything about them using CRISPR or otherwise editing the human genome. Would be neat but it seems like pharma companies charge a million dollars for that kind of treatment.

Re: Immunity Generated from Covid-19 Vaccines Differs from an Infection

#119

Post by bobbytit »

jiocrag wrote: post #108
bobbytit wrote: post #99

This more recent Thai study shows that natural immunity is far superior for all known variants... https://www.news-medical.net/news/20210719/Thai-study-looks-...

CoronaVac vaccine? This is a much less effective vaccine than Pfizer and Moderna ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CoronaVac ), so it's not surprising that natural immunity would be superior.

What about the Israeli study then.. https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/natural-immunity-is-stro...

Double pfizer jabbed idiots were 13 times more likely to be infected than those unjabbed who had already recovered from prior infection.

Re: Immunity Generated from Covid-19 Vaccines Differs from an Infection

#120

Post by Godel_unicode »

rossdavidh wrote: post #75
oldgradstudent wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> However, vaccines only target spike protein, while a previous infection will cause your body to produce antibodies for a much larger set of targets on the virus, which in practice leads to a more robust immunity. This is supported by data from Israel and some recent studies No, it does not. The data from Israel only supports the claim that immunity from infection is longer lasting than from the vaccine, which shoul…

From the last link: "Conclusions: This study demonstrated that natural immunity confers longer lasting and stronger protection against infection, symptomatic disease and hospitalization caused by the Delta variant of SARS-CoV-2, compared to the BNT162b2 two-dose vaccine-induced immunity. Individuals who were both previously infected with SARS-CoV-2 and given a single dose of the vaccine gained additional protection a…

GP is not disputing that. They're pointing out that we know this, but not why.
Post reply on HN